SPEAKER_00 0:34

Welcome to the Better Two podcast. I'm your host, Donna. Today's guest is Lars Treach. Lars works with a gentleman named Jack Grissom, who you will also have known from the podcast, and they put together an album called The Life Undone. The album I've listened to it three times, and it is a roller coaster of emotion. That was something that was brought up in the interview. And I can't wait for you actually to hear it because we had an interesting conversation, not only about music, about the record, but about design and just things in general. So tune in. Hi Lars, how are you doing today? Hey, I'm really good. Thank you. How are you? I'm good. And you are in Germany, correct?

unknown 1:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Berlin.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

In Berlin. Correct. And uh in the back you see Karl Marx LA, which is this famous old GDR parade street. And that's where my my uh shop is located. So right now I'm in my shop, basically.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

I was when I was looking up some stuff about you, it said you had two spaces in Berlin. Is that true?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Or you just don't have uh we have two spaces. We have this main store, and then we have another little uh smaller gallery where we also do exhibitions and uh little events. So that's that's a fun space that I sh share with my buddy Thomas, who is also doing he's an art dealer, so we share the space together.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

And I know the we're gonna focus on your new project coming out, but I I really when I was digging into it, it's kind of an amazing story because you back when you know you were living in your hometown, your band that you were in, um, which was Professional Reporter. Thank you, professional reporter, it kind of ended. And your wife had come back and she had finished school and you decided there was nothing there, so you were gonna start a new chapter. And so when you look at the growth from you being in the music business and it it kind of went its course at that moment. I'm not saying you were done with it, but at that moment you decided to take this risk and change your life. And I mean, you ended up your wife got pregnant, and now look at you. Now you have this art gallery, you have a shop where you do and and the thing is the other amazing thing to me was you said in prior interviews that you had you were just collecting stuff that people were getting rid of, and you built on that. You saw value where somebody didn't see value, and look where you are now.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Yeah, so I mean, yeah, I mean, that's that's basically right what you said. It's like uh the thing was nothing was planned, you know. I uh I was collecting design pretty early on, I was into vintage cars, I had an old American like 1950s Chevy when I was 18 years old. So I always had a thing for these for that period, you know, the 50s and 60s, I like the movies, the literature, and everything. So I never planned to make anything out of it, right? I just lived that lifestyle, and while I was playing in bands, coming from the punk rock hardcore scene in this nice small town Koblenz, which is really beautiful. At the there's the river and the Rhine, and there is like um a lot of it's a big wine area, so the Riesling is a famous wine that comes from there. So it's very lovely postcard uh place, but for sure also a little bit boring. And then because of my wife, exactly, she came from Amsterdam because she studied in Amsterdam, and um, I mean we lived together for like I think two or three years in my hometown. But then at one point she said, like for my art uh study that I did in Amsterdam, there's not really much out here, so I think we should we should get something going, you know, we should maybe move somewhere where I have a little bit more uh connection to to the art world, and then we decided to move to Berlin. So the band was never really officially done, but it kind of was on the way to it, so we weren't really busy anymore. We didn't tour, so that was for us like okay, let's move to Berlin. Um, and then basically, after I think it was maybe three weeks, she was pregnant, so no family here. Um we both don't come from money, so we were like kind of like okay, now we are six hours away from our hometown, and uh you a baby is on the way, uh basically not really a job, you know. And so then I said, Okay, I would love to um take care of my family, right? So um, and then I decided at one point, like let's rent a little store. I went to like a 500 square feet store and put the furniture in there that I carried already to Berlin that was most of it standing in our house already. So, and I started to sell these pieces, and then I kind of turned it around, like okay, I sold it, and then I I looked for some other pieces. I had a friend from Austria who had a garage full of antiques. He said, Yeah, sure, come pick it up. So I, you know, I I was hustling, completely hustling. Um, yeah, and then but it went really well, and then after two years, I could move to that space where I'm now, which is like a way bigger space, and I got employees, and we had a workshop with upholstery, so that was all very nice, and it developed really, really nice.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

And both that and music, it explores creativity because especially working with textures and fabrics and in designing things, and even your house. I mean, I saw the whole article about your house. That that coming about and bringing that to fruition had to be something amazing for you because this is something I'm sure being connected to the 50s and 60s, you were thinking, uh, how in the world will I ever uh get this done? But yet you managed to pull it off because he could have said no.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

You mean Ray Cappy, the architect? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the funny thing is, I did it, it wasn't it was not that I asked like 10 different architects, and luckily Ray Cappy was the 10th who said yes. No, he was my he was our first choice, and he said yes. So, and looking back to all of this, you know, it's like he was definitely the right guy that I should have asked in the first place, which I did, and I I don't know what it was, and it's a similar thing with Jack, you know. That's what I was gonna say because Jack because Jack said so so the whole trip, you know, it was a crazy journey. So I remember when Jack left Berlin, he told me, Hey Lars, I think you should be German cancellor. And I was like, What are you what are you talking about? He said, The fact that you made me come here, make this record, is crazy. Because I was basically done with the whole thing. He said, I don't want to be in a band anymore, I'm burned out, and the fact that you made me do this, that like staying in my house, traveling overseas, blah blah blah, the whole thing. He said that you made this happen is absolutely crazy. So, and this is a little bit the similar story, and I know, and I told it Jack, and he's not good with getting compliments, you know, he's very like shy about he's too humble, you know. And then when I always say something, he always answers with like, let's not get crazy here. Whenever I say something nice to him, he's like, Last, let's not get crazy. So, for example, I said, uh, hey, basically, I could I I wouldn't know of all these like old punk dudes from the early 80s, you know, like the early guys. Uh, he is the one that I was always like, the the this was the right one. There's nobody else that I could imagine I would have choose chosen besides Jack. You know, he also how he worked, how how his musical talent worked, like basically, and also that was also a big surprise. Like, Jack is so I think it's he's so much better than people can recognize based on what he is showing officially, like the credits he's getting. There's not like he he's capable of so many more things than people because I mean I know the band, I've seen him, I've seen interviews, these kind of things. So, what is actually out there of Jack, which is not I mean, there's already some out there, but when I work with him, I was pretty surprised. And I actually told him, I said, Hey Jack, I think uh I what did I say? And he he didn't take it as a compliment, he takes it more like an insult, he which he thinks is a German thing. Okay, he I said, uh hey Jack, I think you're like I had no idea how good you are, and he was like, What the fuck does that mean? Right? So it was like I meant it as a compliment, but he thought it's a bit of fancy because the Germans, you know, they they always come with a compliment, but they say it in a negative way, so they don't, you know, you know what to where to put it, you know, because we're quite straight shooters and not like this, yeah. So that yeah, so this was pretty funny, yeah. That combination, also, you know, that which maybe is a little bit my journey of like how I approach things and how I how I handle things, you know, like this with with Ray Cappy for sure, but also with Jack. I mean, it's just um, yeah, sometimes these moments, you know, where you where you meet and you met people, and then maybe I have maybe a talent to see an opportunity quite easy and even go for it, not just let it pass. I was like, okay, you know, I met Jack and this is and we had some talks, and as soon as he he came up with a little thing on I think on Instagram saying maybe I want to do another record, but it was more like an not really something, but I immediately picked on that, you know, say, hey Jack, let's do a record.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

He's like, okay, you know, and uh yeah, so but it seems like between the move that you made, working with Ray, working with Jack, it's all been something that has fallen into place. I'm not saying it was easy, not that there weren't complications, but that it's like kind of being at the right place at the right time. It was synchronicity, it all kind of melded together, and that's that doesn't happen all the time. That's a rare thing. It's kind of like you manifested what you wanted. And maybe that's because you're being I think what happens is sometimes we're not so open to what taking this opportunity. Like you said, you saw the opportunity, you took it. Most people will say, Oh, there's an opportunity, but what happens if they say no?

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yeah, I mean, uh there were definitely situations that I thought something would happen and it didn't, right? So, but I still have this um enthusiasm not to like still believe in these moments, you know, even if it's like only every five times or whatever it is, uh small things, big things. But for sure, like these are all I mean, the the the house was a major project. I was busy with that thing for like five years with the planning and getting the materials, and I made it really like I didn't give up on the insulation because the German walls are too big. I want to have it California thin. So it was a crazy journey. I mean, we can we could talk like just three hours about that house, which is very boring for you, I guess. But um, what I mean is like, and but also, you know, now with with doing this this record is um there's a lot of things like I had also some I forgot also a little bit like it's not only writing songs, you know, it's like the production, it's the and also everything that has to be happened after this, you know. Um, that you still want to get it out there, you try to connect to people that might have uh an entrance to somewhere, or I don't know what, you know, and also talking with to Jack all the time. It's like for sure, it's I mean, we're spending a part of our lifetime being busy with this, you know, and I really appreciate that he was open to do this.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Well, that's the thing we because I'm an author and the podcast, and very much like you, you're always, I don't want to say hustling, but you are, because you want to you want other people to see it. You want other people to read your book, you want other people to see your designs, you want other people to listen to your music. And now, while we have unlimited access to be able to do it, to put our creativity out there, now you're competing with more people, and so you're shouting into the void more.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Yeah, I mean, I can I so for sure it's nice when people listen to your music, but that was never really like we wanted to do something that we both liked, and and Jack sometimes has also like he's a roller coaster of feelings, also, right? So he uh that's a fun story. So, you know, so he called me and said, uh, hey Lars, uh, out of nowhere, right? He said, Hey, you know that nobody gives a shit about that record, right? I said, What do you mean? You know, I'm a 64-year-old guy, who gives, like, who cares about this? Just so you know. And I was like, Okay, Jack, I hear you. I'm not expecting anything really, right? But um I uh I hear what you say, right? He was just warning me not to be so like uh enthusiastic about it, I guess, you know. So, but then two days later, he calls me and says, Lars, I think we have a problem. I said, Okay, what is it? We might not get a Grammy because this record is published in Germany. So, you know, so these are the funny, these funny things that happen sometimes, you know. So just so no, and then I was like, okay, so and then I even looked it up because for sure, like it seems he's concerned about it, you know, but it's funny. So um it's uh it's not a problem that it's published in Germany.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Well, and I will say, you know, actually the summation of roller coaster remotion, that is kind of the record though, because some some there's a couple of songs like uh Pieces of the Sun that has a punk feel to it. There's still that that driving punk, but then there's other songs like phone call that are kind of laid back and mellow. And so there's very much an ebb and flow in the record. And I listened to it three times now. So it's it's good. I enjoyed it, and but it it's very diverse. So it's like I can see a calling to the punk audience, but I can also see a calling to the more mature audience that you guys have grown into, and that's the thing. It's like, yeah, you started out that as that young punk, but how much of that young punk has grown up? Because we all have, you know, we all have. So how much has has your musical style changed since you first started playing at 13 or 14?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Yeah, I mean, I could so I I listen to a lot of music, right? I listen to jazz, I listen to singer-songwriter things, I I love the 60s. Um, and I still listen to sometimes really like hard hardcore records. So even if Jack would have said, I want to do like a hardcore record, I would be stoked also, you know. But I see the beauty in the in the in the in in the in the harder stuff, but also in I really enjoy this more like mellow, mid-tempo, which is basically also what I did with Professional Reporter. Most of that stuff was kind of mid-tempo at the end when I stopped playing that that kind of style. So um, but the thing was with this record, we never planned to do okay, this is a punk song, so we played hard on the electric guitar. So we wrote all the songs on acoustic. So I had an acoustic guitar, Jack had the piano. So this is how we created these songs. And what was also really cool, what Jack said, and I know I never saw it that way. He said, uh, any song, if it's a good song, it works in any way. If it's a good song with a good hook and the good melody, you can sing it hard, you can sing it soft, it works in all directions. So, and then we decided later during the production process when we've already kind of been in the studio. Um, okay, what do how do we feel that song? Do we feel that more like a faster song or like uh more like a mid-tempo or even like a ballad? I mean, phone call was always meant to be a ballad, but um the other songs it was pretty open, you know, and uh you can play those songs in any style. And he called it a birthday, a birth happy birthday version. You know, you can sing happy birthday in all directions and in all styles. So um that's why it was never like that. The that the record came like like this diversity that was also never planned, and it kind of happened basically on spot in the studio. Like, how do we feel that song? How fast should that song be? So it works the best for the song. We always looked at the song, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

But you did do a lot of your planning for this record and working on this record via Zoom, correct?

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Yeah, I mean, yeah, for yeah. I mean, we we we we record like we wrote this, we wrote these songs over several months. Basically, nearly every day in my I was in my basement, so Jack was Jack's morning, it was my afternoon, like we started around about six in the evening and then until midnight, and that went on for several months. Um but then it was also really difficult because the zoom, because Jack has a Wi-Fi, I have a Wi-Fi, so it was always like this two or three seconds delay, which made it really hard. Because he said then, oh, what what chord can we do here? And then I played a chord, and then I played another chord, and then he said, Oh, that's nice. And then I was like, which one? Because I'm already at chord four. He meant the chord two, and I don't even know always these names of these chords because I'm not like the crazy music theory guy, and and sometimes it drove him also crazy, you know, like Lars, play or then even like we don't have a we don't have a B in German, we say H. But then also all these letters via internet, like B, E, C, G, it sounds very similar. So he says play G, and then I understand the C, and then it's like G, and then we throwing, and then we were throwing like words at each other, like you know, kak for the C, for example, right? So stuff like that happened, and sometimes it was really difficult. But the good thing was like we saw things happening, you know, then we we both liked it, and so we kind of like worked through this. But then I had to say, when I went to I went to Jack for like a week to finalize the structure of the songs when we already had these ideas, and that was for sure like very important to do that because I we also felt how quick we solved most of the homework we have to do on finishing these songs when I was there, it was so much easier for sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I imagine. So when you were since you finished this project, have you been bitten again by getting back into the music scene?

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Um so I mean right now, no, because even though I like it for me, it feels um it was a really intense time now. And I don't know if I would get a similar feeling now with doing something again with some people over here. You know, I I like that challenge of for sure doing it with Jack and how he worked was really fun. And uh right now I I'd rather miss to not do another record with him than just randomly looking for some people and do another band. That's right now not so important for me. Because I still have my store and I'm busy with design stuff. Um, and for sure if Jack would have said, like, uh let's make another record or whatever we want to do, I'm I'm always in. You know, that's that was so much fun for me. But it's not that I'm now kind of like back to that music addiction that I just have to do it again with whoever. No, that's not right now the case for me.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

And you met him because his friend Edward Clover, you were there researching a photo book. Is this gonna be a book that's come out or coming out?

SPEAKER_02 19:18

So at uh it was several things. So Ed Colbert who's that photographer, right? He um I know him already for like maybe three years, four years, and uh, we had always some some talks. Uh and so what happened was that he um he's busy with a book right now, with a big book, and he went to Las Vegas to the Punk Rock Museum because he had an exhibit there. So I went there to visit Ed basically, and then uh funny enough, Jack gave a tour in the in the museum. So that's how so we got a tour with Jack in the Punk Rock Museum, and then uh because I was for five months in in Los Angeles, I was uh I was doing an interior design project um for the Frank Zappa guest house for the studio in the Hollywood Hills. So we did the whole house. We we brought furniture over, and uh, we were basically busy with this project for several months, and then we also included Ed for the um for that project. So in the kitchen, there's like several portraits of of uh Ed's photos, and I wanted, and then I said we had this opening event, and then I said to Ed, hey, why don't you invite Jack over? Because we barely met at that Punkrock Museum, right? And uh I know that also Jack has a thing for cigars, and I told him I brought a Cuban from Germany because I know it's hard to get there. So why don't you tell Jack to come over to that opening party and I have a little Cuban cigar for him, right? So, and then he came. And he thought I was joking. I told him, No, so no, we have a cigar. And he said, Oh, you really have one? I thought that's a joke. I said, No, no, I meant it, you know. There's this there's a Cuban cigar, and yeah, and then uh we we were smoking, and then he asked me, Do where do we smoke that cigar? We were sitting in the kitchen, and there were maybe like another 50 people in that room, right? Was packed. And I said, Uh yeah, like we smoke it here in the kitchen. He said, Are you kidding me? We cannot smoke it inside. I said, Yeah, we can, you know, and then the owner was there, and I went to the owner and said, Can can I smoke a cigar in your house? And he said, In my house, which is on the other side of the street. Uh and I said, No, no, I mean in our project house that we're just doing the design in. Oh, yeah, for sure, Lars, don't even ask me. So, and that was funny because Jack was really looking careful how I light that cigar first. He was still a good belief that this is happening, right? So, but then we had a nice cigar in that kitchen, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Well, you know, over here we we tend to frown upon smoking, although from what I've heard recently, it's making a comeback. I think it's the stress of everything.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

I get I get all sides. You know, I I once in a while I smoke a cigar, I'm not a crazy cigar guy. So I maybe let's say uh only if it's nice outside. I don't smoke in my house, usually, right? So it's it's uh but Jack, I know Jack is a is a is a cigar smoker a little more. So So uh no, that was that was fun. Yeah, it's a nice, it's a nice little thing.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

And you know, I'm not a cigar smoker, my late husband was, but and he shouldn't have been, but that was one of his vices that he still allowed himself once in a great while a cigar. And yes, it was outside. We're not doing it inside. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Right. No, it's it's a strong smell inside, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

So, what kind of projects do you have coming up besides um the record? I mean, that comes out in July. So, what's coming up, Else?

SPEAKER_02 22:29

So, I would like to do an exhibition with Ed Culver in Berlin since he has never been shown in Europe. He himself never been to Europe, also. He's already in his mid-70s. It's funny that he never he never came over here. So, and I'm a big fan, and I think uh his work has to be seen. Um, so we're talking about that gallery space, you know, like this is a great, a great thing for that gallery. Uh, planning another exhibition with Jürgen Nogai, who is uh architectural photographer. He worked with Julius Schulman. I don't know if you if you know him. He's a I think he's the most famous architectural photographer of the last century from California. He was from the he's already he passed already, but he photographed all these modern homes in California and the desert. Um, so he worked with him the last 15 years. He also shot my house. So uh some of the photos that are published are also his photos. So I want to do an exhibition with him. Then uh I might be back in Santa Barbara by the end of the year because the last Ray Cappy house, we are doing um the interior uh for that house, which is really beautiful, like Butterfly Beach, uh second row in Santa Barbara. A friend of mine owns that building, and they're actually in the building process right now. So uh we're gonna build all the cabinets and uh furniture and the staircase, and we ship it over with a container also. So I might be I might stay there for several weeks. Um yeah, and that's right now basically that.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

So with your love of California, how come you never decided to uh uh migrate over to there?

SPEAKER_02 24:05

I mean, for sure, like the thing, I mean, I I always like that idea, but then for sure, like being in Berlin, have a company with like at one point I have like 10 employees, you know, and the family and the kids in school. It's you it's not that I have two kids, so it's not that easy. We cannot just move. And I have to say, being there for five months, it changed a little bit of my view on it. Like when it's holiday, everything is always fun, you know. But when you see like a daily life, how people work, the cost of living, um, for sure. The homeless, you know, like it's we went to um to downtown and it was crazy, you know, how it looks in Los Angeles. So uh for sure you see the the negative sides more when you stay longer and you have a daily life, basically, because I worked there, you know. And um so yeah, I mean, I always like to go there, and I have a lot of night a lot of nice people that I met over there, but um immigrating is maybe a little bit off my plate.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

I understand. And I mean, especially especially some things that have occurred here lately. I I would not blame you for not wanting to. Where are you where are you located? Where are you located? I am located about 80 miles west of Chicago and 10 miles south of Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

So yeah. Um, I'm not I'm in a bigger city than I used to be, but I'm not in that big of a city. So I kind of stay away from the fray. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, the thing is, wherever you go, you're going to see those things now. That's that's there's no isolation from the negative now. There's just a lot more, I don't want to say dystopian, but no, because we haven't gotten there yet, but it's not as positive. And I know that you guys, like gas prices, you guys have always paid more for fuel than we have. And everybody's losing their mind because now fuel fuel costs has gone up and now food is going up, and now everybody's just in a panic. So it's a lot more stress over here now than it used to be.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Right, right. Yeah, I mean, I just remember the daily life in LA was like the cost for food already back like then, and that was like last year, October. Um, no, wait a second, it's longer, longer before that. It was uh it was before that. I think it's actually I was there October 24 until what is it? Yeah, something like that. It was already a year more than a year ago, and uh and uh it was absolutely crazy. Like the for breakfast, uh going out in the evening once in a while. Like we went to this uh punk rock show, and uh the I think the ticket was like $28, which is fair, but then you pay like 20 bucks for a little beer, and that was like what, you know? So it's and people are used to this, and it there's a big line, and you know, nobody cares. It's like I couldn't believe it. Um, yeah, so and also buying food and stuff because we uh we we had a kitchen at one point in that in that in that spot, and uh then I said, okay, now we can buy food and it's affordable now, but also buying food was crazy expensive, so yeah. But maybe also LA is different to like countryside or smaller cities.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Maybe Los Angeles is also Los Angeles is a little bit more costly, but in California in general, it's a little bit more pricey, just like Chicago proper versus where I live. You know, because I live so close to Wisconsin, I can still get things cheaper, I can still get my gas cheaper. Where you go a little bit further and it's higher.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

So it it just it's a matter of where you live and and what you're willing to pay for, I guess. Right. Are you have you been to have you been to Berlin? No, I have not. I have not. The only uh the only time I've left the country is one time, and that was to go to Canada. It's not that I I I got my passport in 2020, I was gung-ho, and then life has happened, and I haven't necessarily had the opportunity to travel. So yeah, it it's it's not something that I it's I've always wanted to go to Europe, I've always wanted to go to England, and I just have never done it. And it's one of those things where maybe one day it'll happen.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

And if it You know where you can uh which part of your family in Europe comes from?

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Uh not offhand, but I do have German heritage. I have German heritage and French heritage, and um my great-grandmother was from France, and then she immigrated in to the United States and she passed over here during the flu epidemic. But I do know I have German a lot of both sides of my family have German in me. Okay, but I don't know the exact details. Okay. But yes, I I I mean, even body structure, I can look and say, yes, it's the German, you know, the broad, yeah. So mm-hmm. Um, but Europe has always been something fascinating because it's like there's a different culture over there. There's and coming from New Orleans, because I came from New Orleans originally, we had a multi-carrot cultural thing there because we had Spanish, we had French, and we even had a little Irish around. But it was mainly this French and Irish or French and Spanish that the architect, the architecture there, the just the way everything is built is different than most cities. The first time I went to Dallas, it was like a concrete jungle. There was no culture. Where New Orleans has the culture. Berlin has culture. There's design. And when when a city doesn't have that design, and that's one thing that's sad with modern modernization, is we teared down stuff that is culturally relevant, that is beauty, that is, you know, you look at an old theater building. I remember when I went to Boston once, they had this old theater that needed to be rebuilt. And it looked like they were going to tear it down, but it had all the gargoyles and all the the and it's just such a waste because we don't make things like that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

I mean, even like modern stuff, they tear down really important buildings also in Los Angeles constantly. There's so many people busy with trying to save those buildings, even if it's like old diners, like cool architecture, you know, 40s, 50s. Still, it's crazy that things like that are going to be teared down because of value sometimes of the plot, you know. Like you have this expensive area in Beverly Hills, and there is a little, I mean, basically Chris Pratt, just they tear down a uh, I think a case study house or something because they build like this big, gigantic Italian style, whatever, you know, and then there's this really cool or authentic modern home and they get rid of it. Uh there was Lotna Lortner buildings tear down a Malibu because of the value of the ground, and that they're not secured, which is so wrong, you know. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Well, Jane Mansfield House, they they tore that down, and that had some cultural icon stuff. Her pool was a heart-shaped pool, which I mean, yeah, that can be kind of tacky, but it still had some cultural value. And I heard recently that somebody had bought Marilyn's house, Marilyn Monroe's house, and they were talking about tearing that down.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Right. Yeah, this is something that wouldn't happen here. Like there's a lot of here, it is really hard. Like if you have an important building, they're usually pretty quick on uh saving this, you know, securing it.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Well, that's the the interesting thing is when my my in-laws passed, um, they had a lot of kitschy stuff from the 50s, the 60s, the 40s, even. And for me, I did take some of that and I value it. But the the fact of the matter is a lot of people don't value that stuff anymore. We've become such a disposable society that, as you were saying, you know, the culture of the 50s and 60s, when you think about it, if you place that now, there's a lot of people that just don't care. They just want the instant gratification. And you can even tell in the the textiles. If you buy a t-shirt here in America, I have t-shirts from that I bought in the early 2000s, late 90s. Those things are thick. They last. In fact, this I I bought sometime in the 90s. It lasted. You buy a t-shirt now, you can see right through it, and it's not gonna last three watchings.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

I mean, do you there are companies that are fully busy with making high quality stuff, but it's also a way different price than in the old days, you know, like um this round looped, uh what was it called, wheel loop t-shirts, you know. But then they're like 60 bucks a shirt. They're good, but it's $60, you know, and that maybe was the same quality 30 years ago for maybe a third of that price. So for sure, like you can still buy quality, but because of for sure the quantity is not that much, because it's a small like boutique uh manufacturer, maybe based in the US, instead of like making stuff in Asia or something, they're for sure asking a complete different price now. So, yeah, it's really the question: how important is that quality thing for me if I have to pay maybe three times the price as like an HM t-shirt or maybe more, you know?

SPEAKER_00 32:54

And if you can't afford that if you're on a budget, then there's a problem. And that's that's the unfortunate thing. Just like, I mean, as a younger person, there were times when I was in college that I would go thrifting and I'd find some really cool vintage clothes to thrift. Then it became kitschy to go vintage shopping. And now the vintage stores, we actually have a problem here in this country with the vintage stores are now being bought out by private equity firms.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

I mean, I can just talk about my daughter's 15 years old and they love vintage buying, so they love to go to these vintage stores and flea markets. I mean, I don't know if it's because of my influence, you know, because I'm b most of the stuff in our home is like old, but um I think also the friends, you know, I think it's a big thing. And I also when I went to Rose Bowl, so Rose Bowl, Los Angeles, I've been to that flea market several times. So this vintage clothing is taking over more and more space, like the furniture stuff gets less, and it's all over the place with with uh with vintage clothing. And uh the furniture dealers are already very annoyed that they kind of like they're growing and growing, and the furniture is getting smaller, but right, it's very trendy, especially in the big cities, I think, uh, for the for the younger people to buy vintage again, because maybe also the quality and having you know something that doesn't look just like now, it's something from the old times and it has a different style.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

And that that's why I did it back in the day. I mean, I I I even went as far as wearing gloves at times and big hats because I was trying to make a statement. My mother thought I was insane, but I was trying to express my the way I wanted to dress. And at the time I was living in Traport, which was a very conservative town, which I didn't fit in. But it was my version of punk rock being goth or whatever, because I had bla dyed black hair and everything else, but it was my expression, and that's the thing. If kids are willing or teens are willing to go back and take the old and make it new again, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just when we we turn into a disposable society that we won't just don't appreciate anything that we have a problem.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

And so I'm kind of glad that go ahead. No, but I think I mean there's always these trends, right? These so also now there's some younger people, they want to get rid of like social media and not use it anymore. So I mean, there's always when there's a mass thing, you always have quickly an anti-thing, so that can create another trend. So I don't know where this is going, you know. But you I mean, I was always being busy with vintage furniture um and old cars, it's like I've never was that person that always wants something new and you know, and and and toss everything. I use everything until it totally rips apart. Also, my my clothing, you know, my t-shirts. Like when I when I when I put them in the garbage, like there's like there's holes everywhere, you know. So uh yeah, so for me, like I've never understood that idea of like I need to buy cheap shopping at H ⁇ M because I want uh for every season I need a new wardrobe for like $500 or whatever they do, you know. So it's uh yeah, I never understood that that anyways. So for me, it's it's really um yeah, disturbing.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Well, I I laugh. One of my friends is like, well, my nephew wants a cassette player with cassettes, and I'm like, I have a whole two milk crates in front of my desk of cassettes that I've had for years, and my and vinyl made a comeback. It's like I have all of this stuff and I have DVDs still, and now people are scrambling saying, I want DVDs because I'm tired of streaming. Okay, well, you shouldn't get rid of everything.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

And even, you know, I remember buying my vinyl when it was like seven dollars a record, and we had a place called half price books, and sometimes I'd buy it used and it was like two bucks. Now that same same record, you go to the half-price store and it's $25 because now it's vintage.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

So it's back to being in a hip hip store right now.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Exactly. Exactly. Gen X Hipster. Uh-huh. So did your wife work with you to do this and she was an artist as well to do some of the creative stuff?

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Why no? I mean, Sarah, so because of the pregnancy, she kind of like was busy with like raising our kid, first kid, and then the second kid. So now she's doing she's an art teacher. So at one point she's she's studying again and became an art teacher at a gymnasium in in Berlin at a really nice school. So she's teaching kids art now.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

I just didn't know if she ever kind of collaborated with you on any kind of projects. That's why.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah, I mean, she yeah, she she also studied photography. So for a while, she took some of the photos for the website and stuff that she did for a while. But uh, I mean, she's definitely the person that I like what's it called? Uh uh consult. What is it? Consult.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Consult. Consult.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

Yeah, she's consult me for everything, basically, right? So I I talk to her a lot about decisions for the furniture, for the store, for the house that we did. So for sure we're partners, but uh she's not busy with me on my daily business, which I think is a good thing. Because you know, if you already live together, and we already like for 20 years, we're a couple, right? So uh I think it's good that everybody has his thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

So, what's your favorite song on the record out of all the songs you wrote? What's what's your favorite?

SPEAKER_02 38:15

That's a tough question. Uh, so there's a couple. I mean, I I when I listen to the record, sometimes I skip songs, right? So I I like um Pain Goes Around, Peace of the Sun, uh These Things, uh Lazing in the Battle Day with You, Loser, and Anthem. I would think these are my favorite songs. Uh, I don't have a really number one song that changes. Like in the beginning, I had okay, this is my favorite song, but then let's say Anthem, and then a week later I went to Loser, and then you know, so it was cool. Like, I and it's also funny because everybody who listened to that record, everybody has a different favorite song, which is great, right? Because every is it's boring like to have a record and there's two good songs, and the rest is mediocre, and these are always the two songs that everybody talks about. So it's basically everybody has a different, like I'm I've heard maybe there's maybe maybe 10 people with 10 different favorite songs, which is great. I mean that that shows that the record is really, really strong, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Out of all all the lyrics, how much did you contribute to the lyrics? Because I know some of the lyrics sound more like someone who has had more problematic relationships.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

No, I'm sorry, I cannot take the credit for any of the lyrics. This is object.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

I kind of thought I kind of thought, but I wasn't gonna, I was trying to be pragmatic. I kind of thought that was the case, but I you know, I just wanted to clarify I just want to clarify because I mean for me, phone call actually, when I was listening to it, I'm working on a a my first book is a four in the foray of two books. I mean, I have eight books out, but this book that I'm gonna I'm working on currently is about a couple that is kind of coming back together in their 50s and they were together in their 20s. And phone call really resonated. I'm like, I could actually put this on a playlist for the book and and have more people listen to it, but it it kind of resonated. So it was like when you think about that as a musician, you don't expect other people to get inspiration necessarily for their own work, but sometimes it happens.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Yeah, and even though they sometimes even uh like when you when you there's a there's a song and uh you make you make it your own thing because of something that happened to you, even though the songwriter did not have that in mind, right? But you can even sometimes some sentences work in different situations and it helps, you know, like to identify with these, even though it's a different different thing, but that's yeah, for that that's always nice about the music in general, right? When you hear something that that generates with you, and it's like, oh, this, you know, it makes you your heart warm, you know? And it's like, oh yeah, right. But even though it wasn't meant like that, but it works, so that's good.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Yeah, I mean, um, I had to take my husband off life support, and when I got in my car and had my music come on, the first song that comes on is a song I really never listened to. And one of the lines was facing the wall of death. And it was just like, I had just literally done that. And then the next song on was basically it's called Facing Uh the Universe Alone. And so I'm sitting there in a car bawling, but it was like, uh dare I say the perfect soundtrack. I mean, if I were filming a Hollywood movie, here are two perfect songs for what just happened. But I'm sure when they were written, they weren't about that. They were, I mean, maybe partially about facing the universe alone, but I don't think they were thinking that somebody's gonna be doing this and then listening to this. So it's one of those things where it's imprinted now when I think back that those songs will always be imprinted to that.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

And so music becomes part of who we are, and that's you know, I was looking the other day at something online and was talking about how certain songs have become love songs, or they're played at weddings or whatever. And um, one of them was the police, I'll be watching you, or every breath you take. And they're like, you know, people play this at their wedding, and it's really about obsession and the stalker. It's not really a wedding song.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

But as you said, we take it, we make it our own, and that's it.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

So what do you hope in the next couple of years? What kind of projects do you want to bring into your realm?

SPEAKER_02 42:39

I usually don't plan that far ahead because it would also block me get jumping on these spontaneous wagons. You know what I mean? If I'm manifesting something that I want to, I mean, I don't know. Um I love building a house, so I could even imagine building another one at one point because I really enjoyed the process of like having uh the opportunity to work with like talented architects. And now I'm I'm I'm I'm really still uh close with with the son of Ray Cappy, Finn Cappy, he was a great, great guy. He's an architect also. Um so always like that idea of building maybe a house, even if it's for somebody else, not us, could be a fun idea. Um for sure. I'm always open to do music, uh, if if the circumstances and the the crew is right, you know. And um, I don't know. I mean, I still think that Jack, even at his age, I don't think he's that old, but he makes himself sometimes older, uh, as he is. Uh, there's still, I would think there's still a lot of music in him, you know, and I hope that he will let it out at one point because I know there is still there's at least one or two really good records in him based on what I what I experience with him, you know. But I don't want to push him. He always tells me there's no band, Laura. That's it. I I always only committed to make a record with you. So he always tried already that I don't even have something. You told me, you said so you in from the beginning. Beginning, he he threw these things on my on my face, you know, like Lars, there's no band. Lars, we're not playing live, Laura, la da la. Like all these, you know. So then I'm not also that maybe I'm not expecting anything, you know. But um whenever the guy calls, I am for sure like I'm happy to support.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

And and I get to talk to him today as well. So I get to hear his side of the story. And I mean, I could have done it together, but I'm like, you know, you both have very diverse backgrounds, so I wanted to explore them separately.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Because you would be fun to cut it would be fun maybe later to cut some of these together, you know what I say, what he says. Maybe I've seen I've seen there wasn't the Beatles documentary, you know, like when there is a story, like what happened, and then you hear like everybody has a complete different story to this situation, right? So it's fun. It's fun, everybody has a different perspective, perspective.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

And that's the thing, it's like we all have a different perspective of a certain event of certain things, how they played out and how they happen. And we have to embrace that, but it's still interesting to hear the conversation because your take, it's always the one thing of did I say something too much? Did I did I act wrong? And everybody else is like, what? You're fine. You know, you don't think about those things, but you may think that something didn't wasn't received well. And it was fine because we get up in our head and we overanalyze and we worry about things. And so him saying that he doesn't have any more music in him, it may be just his own personal way of saying, I don't know that I want to get addicted to this again.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Yeah, I mean, I don't I'm not saying that he's sad that he doesn't have that, it's more like I think it's still in him, even though he said, I don't I don't want to be really play music anymore. You know, he's kind of done with it. So um, and also the thing is with with Jack, I don't know so many people that are like don't have a classic 9 to 5 job, but have that work ethic. So if he's on something, he's basically only doing that. So I remember when I was already ready to start working with him, he was still busy with rewriting a book or working on a book, and he's doing that every day for hours. I mean, I it's for me still like being an author is crazy because you're by yourself and you have to kick your own ass all the time to write a book, right? Because like I would immediately okay, what time is it? Maybe I should have a coffee and then you go somewhere, you know, like crazy. So this is for me to do that, and also that Jack now is uh there is a I don't know if he will talk to you about it, but there is maybe uh he's want to do a movie, he wants to do a movie again. So same thing. So um for sure when Jack is busy with something else, he's fully committed on only doing that all day. Um, so that also maybe is the thing that he has already some other ideas, so maybe that's why he don't want to put like too much into the music thing because he has he wants I know he wants to write books and he wants to make movies also. So for sure he wants to maybe keep also these things more open that he's not blocked by anything else, you know. Um, but what I just said is uh what I mean is like writing this record with him and all these like great vocals, great um like vocal lines, melodies he came up with. It was so good, and it felt quite easy for him, you know. It's it's not he wasn't it wasn't for him that he had to work hard and thinking about it all the time. It was more like he listened to an idea of mine and he put it on and he started already to record his vocal idea on it immediately. And usually I don't think he he he took a lot of takes, like he listened to something and then he starts singing a melody, and that's it. And I'm pretty sure that 80% of what we did happened maybe with the first or second try. So for him, it's so easy, you know, and that's why I mean it's sad if that talent is not doing a little more of that, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 47:53

But here's the thing I was gonna say it also could be not saying that he doesn't have the ability to do that all the time, but this was something that was more of a passion, more of a laid-back project. It wasn't something that was high demand that okay, we're gonna do this and then we're gonna go tour and we're gonna go play live and we're it was more of when you when you embrace your passion, and it kind of goes with the writer thing, when you embrace that passion, the words come easily. Um, my my book that comes out later this month, it it was the fact of I hit us I hit a wall. I blocked myself. I hit a wall because it wasn't what I normally write, it was something off my path. And so I hit a wall. And about three, two and a half weeks ago, I'm like, I have to put this book out. I set my goal. I have to put a book out, I have to do this. The word count has to be around this area. Once I got in that time, that mindset, even though I had podcasts and everything, I still did it. I managed to finish it before it was due. It's already to my person that edits, and here we are. But it it's one of those things where you have to focus on it, otherwise, you can get in your head and get in your way. And that's the same thing happens with music. I mean, if you're gonna sit there and say, I'm gonna write a hit song, it's not necessarily gonna come to you because you're in your way.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

For sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

So is there anything else that you wanted to add that we haven't talked about?

SPEAKER_02 49:21

No, I think we're basically we talked about the maybe future, talked about the project with Jack, which was fantastic. Was a cool, really cool experience to uh tell you the truth. That the whole sometimes it was like a dream, you know. I couldn't sometimes believe what's happening. Uh so I really appreciate everything. Also, that Jack trusted me because he had no idea what kind of music uh uh abilities I have. You know, he saw me maybe playing a drums on my little Instagram thing. I don't know what, you know. But uh, I mean, because so many people would be open to write a record, make a record with them, or write something with them. So I'm really flattered that um that he trusted me with this and that this happened.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

So and he was one of your idols. I mean, to work with one of your idols, that's a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

Yeah, I mean, actually, I found my my friend found some old VHS tapes from the mid-90s, uh early 90s for my hardcore band, and then we had like DIY T S O L T-shirts and like the the makeup stuff and stuff. So he's gonna um digitalize them and I can send you a little clip very soon.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Maybe nice, nice, and I can share it on Instagram. So um, I do thank you for coming on. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Yeah, likewise. Thank you so much. It's amazing and interesting how things kind of fall in place sometimes. Sometimes you just happen to be at the right place at the right time, and things connect. You know, when you run across somebody or a situation where you kind of manifested that you wanted to work with somebody or you wanted to do something, and it actually happens, it's an amazing thing. Um, there was one person I wanted to get my book to, and literally they walked in to me outside of an elevator uh as he was getting off. I was, you know, I was about to get on the elevator, and I wanted to give him my book, and there was the opportunity. And that was something that when I finished publishing, that I really wanted to do. So, you know, I ask you as a listener, what are those moments that have manifested for you that you've created and brought to life that you thought so hard about? I mean, live aid was one of those moments for me as well. And how do they affect you? Is it a life-altering experience? And, you know, that being said, there are moments when I look back at my life and deep down I my vo inner voice is saying, Don't do it, and I still did. Uh, because that was my first date with my first husband. I he invited me to go out, and I tried to back out. I tried so hard to back out of it, and I didn't. And I wish I would have now. You know, looking back, my life would have been different. Um, there's some things I regret about that situation and other things I don't, but this is the thing. And and Lars talks about Lars had talked about this in the interview, was knowing when there's an opportunity to go for it. And when I talk about that elevator incident with the book, I was sitting there in a lobby and my intuition is like, you need to go upstairs to go to the restaurant to get something to eat. Had I not listened to my intuition, I would have missed the whole opportunity. So sometimes when your gut is telling you something that you need to do this, you need to do it. And other times when your gut is warning you, hey, don't do that. You know, as an adult, as an older person now, I kind of listen. Kind of. I don't always listen. Sometimes it's like I I look past that. But when it came to what Lars was talking about, he was willing to take that risk. He was willing to say, okay, we need to start the next chapter of our life. We're not thriving here. And the same thing happened to me. Um when I look at my moves, I've taken these leaps of faith to move somewhere where I didn't know anybody or I knew one person, and I'm gonna just pick up my life and go, and that's gonna be it. But the thing about that is when you're younger, it's much easier to do that. When you're older, you're kind of like, is this the right thing? And you kind of think and think and overthink and you try to figure it out because now you have more wisdom, more knowledge, and you still you sometimes still take the risk. I mean I mean, it's funny because when I moved to where I am now, uh my best friend and I, we were good. And I remember one day before I moved out here, before I actually bought my house or anything, I remember going back to my old house and thinking that if I moved out to where I am now, that that friendship was going to end. I had my inner inner guy telling me this, repeating it on a mantra. And I'm just like, now the question is, is it self-fulfilling prophecy? I don't know. But the fact of the matter is, fast forward almost roughly a year and a half later, a year or three months, that friendship ended. So my gut knew it. I didn't listen. So when your gut, your inner voice is telling you constantly, hey, pay attention, do so. Because there's a message, a bigger message for you to see and pay attention to without being so dismissive of it. So on that note, I hope you check out the record. It really is a good record. I enjoyed it immensely. And well, I thank you for listening. It's important that you know, to me that you guys are listening. And if you're in Germany, in Berlin, definitely go check out a store. And um, yeah, keep listening to the podcast, leave comments, reviews, whatever questions. You know, you can always pose a question even if it doesn't necessarily fit. I mean, I know you guys don't know who's usually airing now, but you can still ask a question and you never know, it might end up on air. So I thank you for listening, and I thank Fast Susie for the intro and outro music. And well, guys, I'll catch you next time. Take care. Bye.