SPEAKER_00 0:34

Welcome to the Better Two Podcast. I'm your host, Donna. Today's guest is the band Me, and we have three members of Me. We have Mark O'Connell, who is the drummer. We have Eddie Reese, who is the guitarist, and Mike Jensen, who is the lead singer. We talk about their latest release, which drops today, called All the Good Things. And it has very much that 90s vibe that when you listen to it, you are transported back in time. We talk about that. We talk about lots of different things, including, well, Eddie mentioned the word fart. And that derailed the conversation for a little bit. But it was fun. So tune in. I have a laundry list of people. Hello, guys. Hello, Edward, Mark, and Mike. Hi, Mark. Hello. Hi, Mike. Hi. How are you guys doing today?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Great. Good.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

I am this is not the norm. We only rarely do we have a whole band. And uh I know we're missing one member, but I'm gonna allow you guys to introduce yourself. We're gonna start off with Mark. Tell us a little bit about you, what you do in the band, and uh go from there.

SPEAKER_05 1:40

I'm Mark O'Connell, and I play drums for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

And Edward Hi, my name is Edward Reyes. I'm a handsome Colombian man from New York. Uh I'm in this wonderful band called Me, who has a new album coming out called All Good Things. And uh I'm here hanging out with you, and we're gonna have a good time.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Awesome. Yeah, and Mike.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Hey, I'm Mike. Uh I sing for the band Me, and we all live in different cities. Uh I don't know where we want to start. Yeah. I'm in Chicago, Mark's in Long Island, uh, Eddie's in Sandusky. And uh yeah, these two guys started writing great music together, and I get to sing over it and create something really, really beautiful, you know, together.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

And what's interesting is, you know, 20 years, 30 years ago, you might not have had the opportunity to be able to do this, you know, to collaborate and be so far apart. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I mean, sure, you could send tapes, but then it would take a while to get there, you know, unless you're doing overnight. So it's a different way to collaborate now with technology. Do you find it easier for you to be able to have inspiration at the get? I mean, if if you suddenly have an idea to call the other one and say, okay, let's do this, is it a much easier time for you now? Or do you do you have to still go, well, give me a little bit of time?

SPEAKER_02 3:12

I don't think we're at the point where we're using the technology to to do that yet. Um, I think we'll get there. But in the sense of now, you know, they they wrote ideas in the studio and I was able to demo them out at home and make it sound decent enough to like get the idea across. Uh that part of the technology and abilities is great, you know. Because, you know, 20, 30 years ago, it was a lot harder to do that at home and do a you know a bedroom demo of something and it not sound like a bedroom demo.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Unless you were tone look.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Right. And it, you know, I'm just yeah, I'm working with what I have and I'm not trained. So but here do that?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

He recorded uh Wild Thing in the Closet. That was the rumor back in the day that he had recorded it in the closet.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

I heard that was true, actually, that he recorded it in the closet.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

So, you know, but I mean, it wasn't really that hard of a composition all put together, really, honestly. Wild Thing was pretty much straightforward.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

It was a it was a pretty simple but pretty genius composition.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yes, and I mean, going back to you demoing everything, because I read the bio.

SPEAKER_05 4:33

Tomak was also in H Ventura, let's not forget that before we go off Tom Lok.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Tom Lok.

SPEAKER_05 4:40

Cool. He put made a copy in H Venture, too. Okay, Tom Loke has so many different talents.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

I I under I'm not I'm not saying the man does not have talent.

SPEAKER_05 4:50

Oh, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

I mean, he he made money, a lot of money off of recording a song in the closet.

SPEAKER_05 4:56

So, you know, I mean he's Jim Carrey's friend without a doubt.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Most likely.

SPEAKER_05 5:02

You know, I guess I put the pouch in, but now I have to spit. I forgot. I'll be right on.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

So what I was gonna say and this is autism. That's what my autism button is.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

It's all good. Sometimes the show goes off the rails, and that's okay. Um, what I was gonna say is reading your bios, um, you had basically demoed everything out, and you basic you were very intuitive about what you wrote because it tied back to some of their emotional feelings. And when you packed your bag to go record, you know, you were prepared to stay, even though they weren't expecting you to stay. So was that just something in your gut that said, this is the real deal and this is where I'm gonna go and this is the right fit?

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Um, so uh you know, originally the first song was like no pressure, you know, if they hear it, that would be cool. If they love it and want me to come out, that would be even cooler. And that alone like would have been awesome. But when we originally talked, it was like the second or first day they had announced this, you know, tryout thing, or not tryout, just like submissions. So there was no they couldn't promise that I'd go, but there was there was kind of a there was an excitement in Mark and Casey when I talked to them off the bat on day one, that uh I knew that something was gonna happen with it. Um, because they they had some other songs, and um they weren't really demos, they were they I mean they were professionally recorded songs without singers that they weren't mixed yet, so in that sense they were demos. Um, but they sent me more material just in case somebody else wrote something that they liked better for the first song. So I just wrote to all of it because that's fun.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

I mean, why not? I I think originally it was gonna be just an instrumental album called Simply Mark and Ed. We found Mike and Mike saved us from naming the album that simply Mark and Ed.

SPEAKER_05 7:18

Simply Dusty. Yeah, exactly. Gotcha, bro.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

So I mean in the world of AI, did you think of it being a short a big risk to put your music out there for people to demo, for people to to write along to and make it their own?

SPEAKER_04 7:41

No. No, because I I think you get a sense of what's real and what's AI, you know, and like I no matter what you try to do, it's gonna happen. Just like back in the old days when you're like, gotta be careful the record, we can't let it leak. It's gonna leak. You know what I mean? So either or someone's gonna do something shitty with AI, you know, but there's nothing you can do about it. But I I'm not worried about it.

SPEAKER_05 8:01

No, because I mean I know it's pretty easy, I feel like, to tell, especially when you know, music is being made. You know, AI does a pretty good job at finding the genre and making its own song to it. But there's something in there that is pretty clear that the feeling, the soul, the the human soul that that that creates is is not there. So you know, when people say AI this, AI fucking that, and kind of like you know, or cues with AI, you know, it's not it's so silly. And man, I don't I don't let but uh yeah, I mean you can tell, can't you?

SPEAKER_00 8:52

I mean, can you pretty much I mean oh yeah, there there's a lack of passion in it, and the reason I guess I brought it up is because this week has been the hot button that a lot of artists have gone on to the search sites and found their music has been stolen to train AI, and the same thing has happened with authors. I mean, we had that big blow up for the author world not too long ago, and we're dealing with the outcome, and we're dealing with constantly fighting about AI, and AI has gotten better at writing, but you can still there are still certain things, and that's the hard part about it is like we all want to be creative. You're creative, all of you guys are creative, but it's like here we want to assign a machine to make somebody who just says, Oh, I want to make a song. Because I think here's the here's the key point to this. I think most of the people that experiment with AI is, and this I'm sure you guys are gonna laugh, but the people that are like, oh, I'm gonna make a hit single or I'm gonna write a book, they think they're gonna get this overnight success and make a big cash grab. But let's be honest, folks, most creatives are not rolling in dough.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

You know?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

So that there's this misguided thing about using it and blowing their career up.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

There's um there's a fear that it's gonna take over that you know kind of triggers all of us, but you can't take away life experiences that build what something is. You can try to imitate an artist, but it's you're not gonna get their entire life story unless it's unless it's that deep of an AI, where it's like learning everything about someone. But I I kind of take it as like there's new there's new programs out there where you could be like, how do I get this tone, this exact tone? And you could you could basically get told exactly what something is and have it instantly, but it doesn't make you a better player to have that. It doesn't make you be able to play like the person who wrote that, who was in that moment. And sometimes, you know, having limited options is better for creativity, it forces you to work with what you have. Like, like if I'm looking at Netflix and Amazon Prime and HBO Max and Paramount and every one of these things to watch a show or a movie, I will spend an hour trying to figure out something. But if I look at my movie collection of like a hundred movies, I'll pick something out in a couple minutes. So creativity is not inspired by a million options. No, and you know, for the fans that are afraid of AI takeovers, go to shows. Go see bands live, go see the passion that they have for what they're doing. And if it's fake, you'll know you'll know instantly, because we're humans.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

But I think the shows, the concerts and the festivals need to be a real thing now because I think that will save music too from the whole AI thing. You know what I mean? Unless they start having AI shows and they do that digital, you know, where they have the fake like when they did with Tupac and stuff like that. Like that's weird and scary.

SPEAKER_05 12:08

Yeah, and and and you know what? I see right now you're in outer space. What are you doing in outer space? I don't know how to get it off. Wait, how to get it down? You're not fooling anybody. We see you.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

You're big thing, you know, Illuminati, rock, paper, lizard spot cuts of it. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Oh, sorry, is that better? I thought you were in outer space. Oh nice, nice better with all the awards and uh this and that. Okay. I like space. I want the aliens to come already. I'm getting bored.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

They're here, man.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

They are here.

SPEAKER_04 12:43

I know they know they are. Uh anyway. Anyway, so hey, but you guys are talking about all that technology stuff and about like, oh, you guys are gonna record over line online. And I was thinking in my head, shit, my first demo I did on a four-track in the late 80s. Man, we did drums, bass, guitar, and vocals. There's something like it sounded awesome. Yeah, it sounded awesome. I missed that.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

I I laugh because now we're having a big resurgence of cassette tapes and vinyl. And I have a whole two milk cartons or milk crates of cassettes.

SPEAKER_05 13:19

Well, guess what? Yeah, yes, guess what? What we, the band me, has a really cool place where you can go and you can get our cassette.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Yeah, yeah. I haven't seen it, I haven't seen it in person yet, but I'm excited about it.

SPEAKER_05 13:38

I have not either. And um, I would like to talk about how we have really cool vinyl, really cool compact discs, and really cool tapes. Yep, that's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

And what made you decide to release it on all three forms?

SPEAKER_02 13:59

I mean, there's there's stats showing that there's a resurgence in these things. Um but you know, with with kids now or the last couple generations that have never experienced owning tangible art from their favorite artists because of things like Spotify and Apple Music. I'm not knocking those platforms, but you know, the industry is constantly changing. These kids want things like we had when we were kids, and they had that. And the only option lately has been vinyl. And yep, you know, if I'm 15, maybe I have a vinyl collection, but like I want something a little more compact, maybe, or something maybe a little more affordable.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

I okay. I grew up in the 80s, and yes, I had my vinyl and I also had my cassette. And if I didn't want, you know, I would tape it off. Remember when discs came out? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

Remember when compact disc came out, how pissed we were? Like in the 80s, I was like, this ain't punk rock or whatever. And then I was like, I talked so much shit, and then next you know, I had a big CD collection. Um I like to pay out.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

This is it.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Well, there's nothing else.

SPEAKER_05 15:08

What else could they possibly do? Mini disc.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

When yeah, my I I actually I still have my husband's mini-disc player that he, yes, he bought one, and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:18

Um so uh I I like to pay attention to my kids and what they're into. Uh like my son and my daughter at that age, 18 and 20, where like everything is 90s, so they want tapes, they want records, they want like that's a big reassurance. And like when my son walks in with his friends, I feel like it's a flashback to 1995 with my friends, the way he's dressed, the way he looks, and the music they're listening to. So I think the whole vinyl and tape thing is so awesome that we're doing it. Like, I'm really stoked about that.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Well, and when you think about it, back in the day, you had not only you had the original single, which you had an A and a B side, and then you had the cassette single. Yeah, you know, we can't and then we then we tried, we tried to do the compact disc single, which I don't think went over very well, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:08

You know, I mean I have I still have um I have uh Faith No More, their cover of easy. I have that uh compact disc still. I still have Garage Days, the original Garage Days on Compact Disc.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Yeah. I have I I have a Goldfinger uh single. I have a I have a Duran Duran box set of singles, which is like 30 discs of the same song released in different countries, and it's just maybe one little thing is a little different, but it's the same song. It's dude, I remember that. I remember oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

Totally called her out.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

I I've met everybody except for Andy. I've met Warren, I've met them all, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

So yes, we wouldn't. I would love to meet Andy. That's what I'd love to meet.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

I would too. I hear cool stories about him. Like all the musicians that talked about him.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Closest I've ever gotten to meeting him was watching him get drunk at a bar and talk to somebody that wasn't there.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

So that's that's an experience in itself.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

We've all done it at a time or two. Of course. Of course, we've also time traveled, but you know, that's a story for another time. Anyway. Anyway. Um, so I guess what do you have plans on bringing this to life to do live shows? I mean, I know that there is the big travel contingency here because you all live in different places. What is that going to be like for you? Are you planning doing festivals, smaller, smaller venues? What is your idea of an ideal me show?

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Well, I mean, for me personally, that's what you just said. For me personally. You know, small shows, festivals, whatever. I'm just worried about the traveling situation, like the way the country is now, and how you have to get a real ID, and now we have to get all new, you know what I mean? Like the traveling situation for me, it's gonna be difficult for us. But I think what you said, like I can't wait to play the smaller, hyped up shows and uh festivals. And I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut anybody off.

SPEAKER_05 18:17

Well, we have our first show. Yeah, which is on the album release is the 24th, and the show is the 23rd of July. So that's our first show.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

And this comes out July.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Talking about it now. Hell yeah. Yeah. I was wondering, like, when are we saying something about this?

SPEAKER_05 18:35

I you know, I just went ahead and did it. I didn't know. Oops, great, okay. But so I so then also now I guess like we're learning, you know, because back, you know, back in the day where we take Mac Sunday and and tell your friends getting big and all that. Like we went and we did it in a van and ad book tours, and it was a different world. So now we're coming at it at this whole nother thing where streaming is everything, and um and it's crazy because you could see like the analytics are immediate.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah, those metrics. You know, you're not you're not guessing if you're big in this city or that city. You can see, oh, there's traction here. We need to we need to feed that traction. So yeah. And and we won't really have any of that until after the album's out for a little bit. But you know, the smaller shows to to get our feet wet, um, because we're we're just dying to play. Yeah, those are gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

Yeah, we should go set up in some busy city and busk the whole band, like together, just play live on the street.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

I actually had a uh musician say that that's what he wanted to do for the summer. He wanted to just get on the back of a truck and play in England.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

So go busking.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

The the only problem is you used to be able to do that. Nowadays, I'm not sure you wouldn't get in trouble.

SPEAKER_04 20:03

Yeah, a lot more red tape, a lot of TikTokers.

SPEAKER_05 20:06

I guess it depends on how good the song is.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

True, you know, uh American, uh what was that band mark? Uh they had those hit songs, they're nice guys. We toured them. American, not American Nightmare. Something America, you know, they have the TikTok.

SPEAKER_05 20:21

Uh uh, All American Rejects.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

All American Rejects just did that whole tour where they played backyards and like they had people uh do this contest, so where whoever won, they went and played. So they played backyard pool parties. Like I watched the shows, it's they played front yards, like it was insane. I can't believe they did that.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

They've they've created a whole platform for artists to sign up and and to connect with fans to be like, hey, we need to be able to have this many people. Can you host? And they're picking, yeah, then play old BFW halls, backyards. Yeah, yeah. Shit's so cool.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

I'm it is so cool, and it is so old school the way it should be. You know, some you know, to do that once in a while it's fun, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Uh Clem Snyde does living room shows for his fans.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

So instead of really playing a lot, he was doing a couple of theaters, but he does a lot of let me come to your house and play in your house for a party.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Right. What the Deer Hunter, I know the Deer Hunter does that. Uh Matthew Logan Vasquez of Delta Spirit does that. And you know, like some tours are real tours and venues. Not to say these aren't real, but like they're they're fan submissions of where to play. And like, all right, let's make sure that we can you know safely have this show go on and and not have the cops called and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 21:43

But I remember going I I remember going to see Jeremy Enix uh solo stuff in libraries. He was doing a library tour and he was doing the Frog Queen is this album he put out, and it was so cool. It was like 200 people sitting on their, you know, Indian style, like kids, watching this guy put. In a library.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah. Yeah. Um, what I'm gonna ask each of you, what is your favorite song on the album? Mark, we'll go first with you.

SPEAKER_05 22:12

Um, right now I'm definitely the most excited about Growing Man. You know, um, it's it's out, and I guess that's really, you know, just having people, just knowing that it's out there for people to hear, because I'm so excited about it. I'm so excited about the whole album. But like, I don't know. I guess having the the album, right, and then hearing it and being excited, and then knowing that it's out and and getting to listen to it, you know, I guess kind of like pretending like I'm not in the band and I'm hearing it for the first time is really exciting. So grown in.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Okay. Edward.

SPEAKER_04 22:53

Oh, I I like them all.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Talking like a true musician. Sorry. You ain't gonna change me. That's fine. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

It's it's really not a lazy answer, though. Um, we're really this album and we like all of it. You know, Ed said the other day that it's something that I do. He he'll listen to the last three songs on repeat, and then he'll go back to the beginning of the record and listen to the first half on repeat. And I do that too. So like every day it's a different song, is the one that I'm obsessed with for a little bit. And there's not one that I don't like. Um what is it today?

SPEAKER_05 23:29

What what's your number one today?

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Today, um, I mean, it's it's grown man has been like, you know, I've been waiting for this to come out for so long, and I knew that grown man was gonna show a bit um a bit more honesty and like the scared aspect of being vulnerable. Yeah, so I'm I'm still really excited that that song's out. Uh I I can't wait until the album comes out and people can hear the intro of the record go into this six snare drum role that Mark does that it just kind of says, like, you know, we're here, we mean business.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

It does come in honestly, and then it and then it gets in your face right away. And I want people to go, ugh, yes. What is this? You know, waiting for this. The only reason go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

I'm sorry, Mike. I'm sorry. That's it. That's all I got. The only reason why I'm so like that, like I can't choose. That's a dad thing, because my dad taught me to never choose a kid more than the other. Anyway, but for me, it was like sitting in the car with my wife listening to the album from beginning to end without talking, timing it, doing that whole gotta listen to this, gotta listen to this, sorry, let's turn up the bass, blah blah blah, doing all that from listening to beginning to end. I'm like, Jesus Christ, I I can't believe uh I was a part of that, and I like every song. I can't choose a song, you know, and that's just the truth. And for me, it's the first time for me because when I was in my other bands, yeah, we put out great records, but it wasn't from beginning to end for me. There was like two I could do without, there was one I could do without. I can't do without any songs. I'm even learning how to play the acoustic song perfect from Mike so that I can play it with them all the time live. You know what I mean? And before I never felt that way, I didn't give a shit, you know? And now I'm like, wow, this is uh this is special. This was placed here for a reason, and I'm not gonna fuck with it, and I'm gonna follow my gut instinct and what my brain is telling me and just flow with it, man. That's where I'm going with. So that's why I like every song.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Well, and I I wasn't trying to bust your balls because here's the fact of the matter. When somebody asks me when the the tables are turned and I'm being interviewed, they're like, So who's your favorite character? Uh I like all my characters. I mean, so I I know the feeling. I I don't have a favorite. So I understand. I do want to talk a little bit about grown man though, because there was, you know, the lyric of energy surrounds me, you're my everything. So when you're talking about energy, are you talking like uh a metaphysical energy or are you just talking energy, like a vibe?

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Fart.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Um did you say fart?

SPEAKER_04 26:12

Yeah, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

No, I want to say this. You can get kicked out of Disney World. You can apparently get kicked out of Disney World if you fart. I know. Okay. So anyway, go yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

They now have infrared cameras to see if you're farting. Who's farting? Yes, I have never gone. The first offense, you get warned. The second offense, you're banned for like five days. The fourth, by the fourth time, you're completely gone from Disney World forever.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

I have a new goal in life. I can I'd be kicked out. I could do this.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

I told you this like this conversation. Uh but um how do we fall back into a song after that?

SPEAKER_02 26:58

But back to the so the the energy I was talking about is is you you you could you could date someone and have a good feeling, and then there's a different there's when you really connect with someone, like on a deeper level, that you can't shake it anymore. Yeah. And that's kind of the energy I'm talking about.

unknown 27:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Not just like excitement, but more of a I don't know, aura or there's a glow, you know, to it. Yeah. You you don't feel separate from the person anymore. Exactly. Well, and go ahead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Well, I was just gonna say, and here's the thing, you kind of when you were putting your your lyrics together and your demo together for them, you kind of knew this could be something big. You kind of, I mean, from what I read, it sounded like you already knew. And if you knew that's kind of that, but that's kind of the energy though. You can have the energy of knowing. I didn't, I I I like I sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Like, no, go for it. I I'll I'll come in after.

SPEAKER_05 28:04

Like, if if you know, you have to like if I don't know exactly what you mean, but in my mind, like there's ways to manifest through through knowing. Because you you if you see it, you visualize it, and and then there's no, you don't even allow for another outcome. That's how you make shit like this happen. And and and yeah, like because you know, you you have to know. It's almost you have to be delusional a little bit, like you gotta be a little bit delusional to be able to to last this long, to be in a band ever that makes sense, and then even at um, you know, I'm 45, you know, Mike's 40 and Ed's, you know, 53, right? I don't know. Woohoo!

SPEAKER_00 28:59

I can tell you how old I am, and you're getting I I'm older than all of you.

SPEAKER_05 29:03

So anyway, but you gotta like sometimes even if you don't know, because there's no actual uh value, monetary value yet, you still have to know.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Yeah, I believe so like when they sent me the other songs and I was just writing to it for fun still, there was a point where I went, huh, like this kind of this all fits together pretty well. And there were definitely changes between the demos and and the finished product, but that song was like I had spent a month writing everything else, and that was the only that song was one that I knew I wanted to write, but I held off on. And the like the day before I flew out, I wrote it quickly, and then I demoed it and it didn't line up. Like the demo tempo didn't line up properly, so it didn't sound great, and I just went, I was on my way to work, put it in the like I put it on my phone and it wasn't lined up, and I went, it doesn't matter. Why why are you overthinking everything? But like I did my homework, you know, I showed up prepared um till the last day writing. So when I got there and they didn't have any interest in hearing the stuff that I had off the bat, because I'm like I'm like this new guy that they don't know singing one song. I was I was sitting with the guitar and it was the last thing I wrote. So it was the last thing I remember working on. And I don't I didn't really know how to play any of them past like I would write the idea and then I move on to the next song, and I would write the idea, and I like forgot what I was playing. But I remembered a finger-picking version of Grown Man and started playing it in front of Ed, and he was like, That's that sounds like my riff. And then I said, It is your riff, and then I started singing what I had over it, and he goes, Oh, that's what I've been hearing in my head. And he said, You got to record this on your phone real quick. And I said, Oh, I I have it, but you know, it screws up by the second chorus, and I pushed play and he ripped the phone out of my hand and ran out of the room, and then you know that's he got me.

SPEAKER_05 31:29

That's when they started talking and looking at me, like Yeah, as Ed grabbed whatever the phone, and and he ran outside where I was like, was like, come inside and listen to this right now, and then I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be right there. And he's like, No, put the cigarette out and come inside right now. And I was like, Oh, okay, and I did. And then Mike played Grown Man on the Acoustic, and then sang, you know, sang his idea, and it was it was beautiful, it was it was really, really pretty, like jaw-droppingly good. And um, yeah, that's really right then and there was the shift to oh, okay, here we go. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Maybe it's not one song. Maybe it's not one song. This dude's staying here, this dude's sticking around forever.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

I think I looked over Mark's shoulder and I went, uh, okay, we're gonna keep him around. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

I I'd finished, I did half of a third song and was about to start a fourth song, and then I was like, what am I what am I doing here? Am I writing half of a record or are we like putting out an EP or because I needed to know where to shift my focus? And there's there's a lot of pressure to work on something on the spot with people you don't know in that studio, which was so amazing. Like a good pressure, but I would you know, living in limbo of whether or not I was gonna continue working on stuff or not. It was it was nice to get more of a all right, let's see what happens. Let's see. We're comfortable seeing what happens.

SPEAKER_05 33:22

Everybody, everybody's put everything on the line for this band. Yeah, every everybody, not just everybody in the band, but Casey, our manager, uh, you know, Neil, Neil and his family, and Neil, our bass player, and his family, like everybody um involved has really put put themselves, you know, like really dropped everything because it's that special. Like when something is so when you just know it and everybody knows it. Like, there you go. Everybody just we don't know if it's gonna turn into money. Still, like we don't know what we don't know what comes in the future, but we know that this is so special that in my mind, I I am saying out loud, like I like I was told, like, maybe don't say that we're gonna be the biggest band in the world anymore to people out loud, but like I when I have said that in the past, I have meant it in a way of like I am so excited. I'm it's another way for me to say, I'm so excited about this new band that I'm lucky enough to be a part of that I just I want everybody to hear it so badly. I want it to be July 24th. I want it to be the show. I want to play that show. We're gonna play so good because also I I want to say that when we practice, where it's immediately good. Like this has been such a hard process to get together up until right now, and like it's finally we're finally starting to feel like oh man, people are liking it. But throughout this entire time, no one knew anything. And um, and but but we do know one thing is that we could when we play music together in a room, it's really, really, really special. It's it's just a it's it sounds so big, and it's only four guys in a room, and it's really yeah, we're gonna play live and we're gonna do it well, and we're all excited for it. That's what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

You vibe off of each other, and that that's important that you can vibe off of each other. Yeah. So the astronaut show. She's up.

SPEAKER_04 35:30

Uh you there?

SPEAKER_00 35:31

I'm here. Can you hear her? Oh, I'm here. No, my internet connection is unstable, and this is called the weather in Chicago. Uh I heard everything you said, so we're good. Um The Astronauts show. That sounds like uh, you know, listening to some of the lyrics there sounds like a little bit of a take on corporate um the corporate music industry. Is that correct? Um, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Originally the chorus I had written like the second day I was at the studio with everybody, and I I sang it different to different chords. Um but that song was was very hard for me to write. I mean, I sat for six months with no ideas of what to do with it, none. And the Chris Bittner, the producer, we we we were kind of at a crossroads. We either had to work on this song, the astronaut show, before it was named that, or work on another song that we still needed to flesh out some guitar and then write vocals for. But it was a better option to work on the song that was finished because it sounded great and it just needed me to do what I'm supposed to do on it. Um, but there was Ed Ed likes to have on um you know CNN or UFO stuff on the TV in the studio all the time. So that kind of bleeds into the record in some spots. Uh, but the astronaut show started for me with I I saw an article about um influencers getting paid. There was like an eight million dollar budget that ICE had for influencers to you know to help the narration of what was going on in the US. And living in Chicago at that time, it was like scary here. Um and it wasn't happening anywhere else yet. It wasn't happening in Minneapolis or in New York or you know, anywhere. So I was scared, but it wasn't being talked about anywhere. And then I find that this budget's being put in place to kind of guide what's going on. Uh it really made me angry. So the money, the money parts of that was kind of calling out corruption and media. But I don't want to go that far with it in the in our in the direction of the band. Um just in the moment. It was it was really frustrating. Um and yeah, our current political system is broken. And that's kind of what it's about. Um I don't need change, and we really need people to not instead of being angry, like find find things that they can do to be positive and fix things. But the song doesn't really go there, it just says that there's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Well, the thing is with social media, as you were talking about, I mean, yes, you do have the people that are paid influencers, and we create a narrative. And the one thing that most people don't look at is we have this whole narrative of the manosphere now versus whatever. And the manosphere is very toxic, it tox does a lot of toxic masculinity and and hate. And if you, I mean, we're all of we're all at least of a reasonable age, that if somebody would have told you to take a hammer and smash your face to get a little to look a certain way, you would have thought they were an effing nuts. You know, it goes back to my mother would tell me if somebody said jump off a bridge, are you gonna do it? Yeah, but in a roundabout way, that's what we have become as a society as a whole. Yeah. Somebody says, Oh, this is the best thing ever, I gotta go buy it. And then uh six months from now it's in a thrift store because it you don't want it anymore. So I I mean, while the hype is great and I hope you get a lot of hype for the record, you also understand that it is kind of the money game, the money of here. We can be we're gonna make you not like people because now we're on social media and we're being paid to tell you to not like people with the ice budget. So it it's a it's a really weird world we live in.

SPEAKER_04 40:14

It's so um Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_05 40:19

It is a wild place, man.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

I I was saying uh the other day actually how colors are different. All cars look mundane, all houses look mundane, and it's starting to become like it's just how they control you, and now they're gonna do it through music now. They're gonna make it dull, and they're gonna again with the AI crap, and it's just scary, and I I'm just I'm not gonna stay alive. I hope the music stays alive, you know? That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Well, and that's the thing.

SPEAKER_04 40:51

I hope the lyrics I hope Mike's lyrics get through to people and they can make it their own scenario, or you know what I mean? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Well, if you listen to people like the the, if you go back and to l listen to forget which the the record it is, it is still timely today. The lyrics are still they still fit the narrative of what's going on in the world today, which is crazy and it's it's sad that we have not progressed as much as we'd like to think we have. But I know you guys didn't come on here to talk about politics, so I won't go there too much with you.

SPEAKER_05 41:25

You know, I stopped, I stopped watching politics just because I couldn't I couldn't. You know it's it's everybody's got a gun.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 41:40

So now my mind is like, well, everybody's got a gun.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

I mean, I went through I went you know what I mean. I went through a cancer battle last year, and I remember actually thinking, what is the point of fighting it if the world's going to crap?

SPEAKER_04 41:56

Right. What the gun?

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Oh, the cancer, oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 42:00

Uh fight the fight the cancer.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

But at the time it was just kind of like if the world I mean, because I have this one friend who's an intuitive, and she's like, Yeah, we're gonna have power outages and we're gonna have food shortages and we're gonna have all this. And I'm just like, so what the fuck is the point of this? Why am I fighting?

SPEAKER_05 42:17

You know, you don't here's one thing. If you don't watch, if you don't watch this shit and you pay no attention to the the fear that they're selling on either side and you go outside, most of the time people are together. Most of the time, people are trying to help each other out. Most of the time, people like at the end of the day, even if you don't know what side they're picking or whatever it is, most people want to help if you get that garbage out, you know, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Well, and that's the thing, going back to the social media thing. If I tell you not to like this person, if I tell you to buy this thing, it's all about control of some some form or fashion. If we can divide you based on race, if we now can divide you based on sex, you know, your sexual orientation, then who's winning? And and who who we're not questioning anything else going on because we're so much embattled at each other, and even AI is part of that at this point. So, yeah. So the other song that I I I I liked a lot was Big Smiles. So what what was Big Smiles about?

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Um so Big Smiles, we had we had one last week in the studio. I showed up the night before um everybody else was getting there, and the producer Chris was showing me some stuff that he'd worked on where it was like some you know crazy jazz ensembles, and it just sounded so big. And he would he was like, you know, a lot of it was just one microphone in the room, and we didn't have anything that. Raw on the record. And I thought I could I I just felt something inside of me that was like I could I could do something with this. I would love to sit in a room and just play an acoustic song because before this band, you know, I've been playing on my own for the last decade. Um I knew I could come up with something and um just sitting there, I was I was thinking about you know, the the morn the night before I left, I was sad to go to bed because I knew I'd wake up and have to leave uh my wife and come to New York. Not like I wasn't gonna be sad the whole time, but you know, I didn't want to leave. Um I you know, I want her to be with me, but it it's not, it wasn't the time. So I just wrote about that feeling of you know, sometimes you have to go do things, but I I'm just gonna miss you a lot. And so I spit out an idea and was recording my phone and was like, that's that's pretty cool. Um, and then the next morning demoed it in the room, and that was it. Um, I told I told Ed that I had an acoustic idea, and um then he said, All right, and he went in the room and he said, Chris, Mike's gonna record an acoustic song sometime this week when when we don't know what to do. And Chris said, Great. And then, you know, we we got to a point where we had finished the songs that we were prepared to do when we got there. Um, we hadn't written the astronaut show yet, and I was still stressing about that. But I'm like, well, we have this thing, and we need a 10-song album. So I have this idea, and then I did it, and then it was like kind of a and then what? It's like, well let Eddie play some resonating chords over the top of it, and Chris, who's playing, you know, uh keys on a lot of the record, said add some cool stuff, just do something, and they did it, and that was that was kind of it. Um and you know the the the final part of it was you know getting Mark's blessing, and he walked in and he goes, This is amazing, you know. Um then and then we got to move on to finishing the record with a little bit less stress. I mean, everything's a time crunch. Um, but you know, we you know the last day, and we're still we're still spitting stuff out at and at the last second. The intro, I lied and I said I had an idea at 9 30 at night on the last day. We're done with the album. I said, I have an I have an intro. And then they went, okay, let's do it. And I played one chord and I wrote a poem. And then I went and I sang the poem in a room, and then I did the same thing I did with Big Smiles. I said, Ed, play something. Mark's like, Can I play symbols? I'm like, Yes, but don't give away too much because you come in with that awesome snare. Like, don't give away what you're gonna do. So tasteful, everything was tasteful and a swell, and you know, that's just kind of at that point there was trust because if someone wasn't in the room, we were doing stuff that benefited the whole project, and so to be able to just be like, I got something, let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

When you're surrounded by talent and like you have ideas like you did, why not work on it? Why not push it, man? Shit. I ain't you know what I mean. So like it worked, it just worked and it sounded great.

SPEAKER_05 47:55

Um, uh, that's okay. Forgot what I was gonna say. Sorry. No, no, no, I'll come back.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

I'm not gonna so what got you, uh Mark and Eddie, or Edward, what what got both of you back together to finally say we need to start creating music again?

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Well, first of all, you keep calling me Edward, and my mom calls the only woman that calls me to be amazing.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Well, your computer, your little thing you says Edward.

SPEAKER_04 48:27

No, I know, I know. I'm just kidding. Um, I don't know. Uh, for me and Mark to get back together and start jamming. I mean, Mark was talking to my son, uh, because my son uh always had a thing about Mark, and they uh my son said, Hey Dad, give Mark a call, and I did. And we're here today, you know, and it was good, you know. It was it was some pretty good thing.

SPEAKER_05 48:50

Yeah, well, like so through the years I kept up with Jonas. Like we'd write Merry Christmas. How you doing? You know, just send you love, shout out, blah, blah, blah. Everything, hope everything's good. That so then when Jonas found out that I was not in Taking Back Sunday anymore, she was like, You need to hit up my dad. But at the same time, I started talking with Casey, our manager, and she really was like, We need to make this, you need to make that thing with that happen. Like, as a Taking Back Sunday fan, like everybody wants to see this happen, like, and you should. And man, it it was it was difficult. And that was really that was really the beginning. Like, we we got he came to Long Island, we went to a basement studio for two days, and and we had the songs that are now blood sport and violent people within the first two days. Everybody was so excited. Jonas, Casey, everyone that we showed it to without vocals was like, oh my god, like that's that, yeah, that's that shit. And then, next thing we know, like Casey used to work with the band The Sleeping a long time ago, and she got in touch with Sal from The Sleeping and said, You know, do you know anybody that's around that might want to possibly record? And then Sal was like, I'm in the band, you know, he's in this band, The Held now, uh, or just Held. And um, they were recording with Chris Bittner. And then we got Chris Bittner and Michael Bernbaum at at Applehead, and and then we went there, and that's that's what we I gotta show you this.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

What are you gonna show us?

SPEAKER_04 50:43

He's showing us that he could run.

SPEAKER_05 50:48

Um this is a picture hanging up, right? And this is right before we knew this is the last day on the session before we met Mike. Yeah, so it's crazy to see this and then think, holy shit, I didn't even know who Mike Jansen was at this moment. And then this man came into our lives, and fucking, that's why we're gonna have a shirt that says, Thank God for Mike Jansen.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Nice, very nice. So I had I do have one question, and I know it's a question that most likely every interview you get asked, but it is a question that's valid. So why the name? And it's surprising that nobody's ever taken that name before.

SPEAKER_04 51:35

Well, then it's simply Mark and Ed. Yeah, just Mark and Ed. Uh also for me, it was uh I just remembered a pen I found in a vintage store that said me with a thumbs up and it says confidence. And uh it just thought of me like Mark and Ed. I mean it just makes sense. Me, it's our time to get to do what we want to do without people telling you you can't. Uh we we it's about us, it's about us finding ourselves and and putting out a good record. So why not make it about us? Make it about me, make it about Mark, make it about Mike, you know, make it about yourself. So it means a lot. The word the name me, you know. And you can also use it a lot of a lot of jokes, you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

True. It definitely can be in a lot of conversations.

SPEAKER_05 52:26

True. Yes, uh and just all good things, too. It's just left at all good things, you know what I mean? It leaves it so open for positive, which is really and I used to hear that a lot. Let me say that one last thing. Like with Eddie and I coming together and and like getting through all the things that we've had to get through, and uh just um just we the the point was to make a positive and and free creative space for ourselves, like because we deserve that. And then I feel like we're doing a like this band me and the way that we treat each other and the way that we respect each other musically, it is it's really you know, I'm not saying that we haven't had arguments about different things, including music, while we're writing it together, but man, like it's really a beautiful, it's a really beautiful at like culture that we have within ourselves and a positive place to be.

SPEAKER_04 53:35

And myself and no one is yeah, and sorry, go ahead. The way I look at it is and and the way I treat it, and the mark's absolutely right. Like, I look at it as like no one's better than anybody. We just need to be brothers and respect each other's art and put it together and make one giant piece of art, and that's the way I look at it. Like, there's no reason why you need to be telling people what to do, or yada yada, you know. So that's what I love about the band is that yeah, there's been some arguments, but it's just brotherly arguments and egos, and that goes away. And it and and we're able to do that, and it's it's easier to uh like for me, uh pressure-wise and stress-wise on writing music because I'm not stressed out and worried about what people are gonna say to me. Because I know Mark will be like, or Mike will be like, yeah, that's dope, or do this, you know, and I'm okay with that, you know. And it's so it's easier for me to be able to write music and jam with these guys, you know, and I I like the I like the uh attitude we have, you know.

SPEAKER_05 54:36

So you know what Mike and I were talking one day, and and we there was a misunderstanding. I don't even know what it was, but we were talking it out, and then we came to the conclusion like yo, you and I, like we all have a baby, we have this baby together. The baby's called me, and the album, the baby's album is called uh all good things. Like, so we had to co-parent through this baby, and you're not gonna fight in front of your baby, you're not gonna, you're not gonna put your baby at risk, you're gonna coddle it, you're gonna care for it, you're gonna protect it, and that's really kind of what we've been doing. And it's it's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

Well, I mean, I think that's the thing that a lot of people don't realize about bands is it's like a marriage, it's like a family. You have to have those dynamics in there. And if you if a band ever were to say, uh there's no fights, I would say bullshit because you're human. Yeah, and you're gonna have those disagreements and you're gonna have to push that energy through to negotiate things, you know. As long as you're not turning into Perry Farrell on stage and clocking Dave Navarro, everything's good. But you know, as long as you can maintain a certain way.

SPEAKER_04 55:57

One time Mark did throw a snare drum at me. I'm gonna grow a kid. I was I know.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

I was gonna say that the other thing is with maturity, with maturity, we can take criticism and direction much easier for the most part than when we're in our 20s, because otherwise in your 20s, you're like, go fuck yourself and you walk off, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 56:21

But I you know, I think when I got in my 50s, I uh and going to rehabs and uh my sponsors that and that's also where I got uh this that's where the saying all good things for me comes from is uh a lot of my sponsors and or like at the meetings, it's they're like the better you make your life fall in place, everything becomes all good things. Your family comes back, your life comes back, money comes back. When you focus on yourself, everything all comes back and it's all good things. So I just that was something I threw out there and it stuck. But what were we talking about? Damn it, I was gonna say something good and I forgot. Sorry, I was bad, Mark. I think that was good.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

Okay, yeah, we're talking about family dynamics and the in the fact that as you get older you can handle the criticism more.

SPEAKER_05 57:09

I think if you love something enough, if you love something enough, you're gonna make sure. If you if you love if you want a relationship to work, or or or you want forgiveness, or you want so much, whatever it is, you want some sort of relationship to work, it usually takes work. And are you willing to put it in or no? Exactly. It's really that simple.

SPEAKER_00 57:32

Exactly. Whether it's friendship or job, whatever, you have to do the work. And I'm not meaning, I mean, yeah, the job you still have the family dynamic relationship of your co-workers. You know, do you get along with them, or you are even if he's an asshole, you still have to do your job. Yeah. So now that this wild ride is about over, is there anything that you would like to add? And I will go to each of you. Mark, is there anything you want to say before I we end this conversation?

SPEAKER_05 58:01

I'm really proud of this band. I'm really proud of this album. Um, I'm really proud of everyone that's associated, everyone's like the wives, the the the kids, the the people at the syndicate and and and and rabies, and all the people that are backing it, man. There's people that are putting their time on to help this get through to the other side. So it's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

Eddie, is there anything?

SPEAKER_04 58:31

I'm uh uh is there anything uh that you want to add? I I'm not a very uh I'm I feel blessed, and I don't mean that in a religious way. I feel that in a uh something is looking over me, like I don't know if it's my parents or what, but so I'm very blessed to be uh surrounded by uh these these guys and writing this album. And it just it just it just feels like it's something that was meant to happen and it's gotta happen. And and that's what I like, the whole idea. Am I answering the question right? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

You're fine. It's whatever you want to say, it's a free form question. Anything to add, it's all good.

SPEAKER_04 59:13

It's all good, it's all good things, man. I mean, there's there's when you when you leave your ego at the door and and you come in and we really truly treat each other that way and respect each other and respect our music, it's all good things, and all the music's good, you know? So that's that's it. That's all I gotta say.

SPEAKER_01 59:31

Mike.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

Um You know, we we talk about the equality of everything and and respecting and loving each other, but and and and absolutely um, but this project came into place because these two guys at a certain point stopped being able to express themselves as creatively as they wanted to, and nobody got in their way of writing the instrumentals that formed you know the the bones of this album. Um, so you're gonna get some nostalgia from this that is really cool without me trying to repeat their past. And I get to explore you know, a 90s alternative sound that I miss. Uh so I'm just really excited for the record. It comes out a month from today. So yeah, and that's when this comes out. Uh it's just a countdown from here, you know. It's oh cool. It's it the countdown's a lot more real when it's exactly one month. One month. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:39

That's wild.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

I'm excited. We're all excited. And you know, yeah. Listen, listen to the singles.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:47

And you guys did nail the sound. It is, it does very much have that 90s vibe.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:52

So I think I mean it's I'm sorry, can I start with the I think it's like uh I needed to remind myself because my confidence was so destroyed that I needed to remind myself, like, whoa, dude, you've been doing this shit since the 80s. Half of these fucking people wouldn't be into what they're into if you didn't start half of those bands or other people influence. You know what I mean? So I had to like remind myself of that to get that confidence back to be able to do it again and not be scared to go out there again. I'm sorry, I had to get that off my chest.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

No, you're fine, you're fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:25

Cool, and I'm just blessed, and I'm just blessed. That's how I wanted to end what I was saying. I'm just blessed to have found these guys, to find Mike, and to have Mark back in my life, and uh and to have Neil in my life because Neil is such a wonderful person, and I wish he was here. But uh, you know, it's just the right thing, man. At the right time, let's flow with it. Let's all jump in the canoe together and let's go.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:49

That's that was good. That right there, right? It just it is a right, it just the energy worked and the timing is right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Yep. Well, thank you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:01

Yeah, thanks for having us. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

Yeah, the reason why that turned into such a wild ride when we talked about Disney is because of the fact that uh I recently had seen a video where they had um infrared cameras monitoring if people farted, which you know, my response to one of my friends was it's a natural body thing. You know, flatulence is normal. But apparently it'll get you kicked out. So, you know, I I mean, this is gonna sound really weird and I could have gone into it with them, but uh, whose job is it to watch for the infrared to see if there's a little poof coming out of somebody's posterior? You know, when you really think about it, it's kind of what do you do for a living? Oh, well, I I work for Disney. Okay, well that's good, but uh what do you do? Um, I watch monitors all day to check for people farting. And how many people do they have doing this? Because Disney has a lot of parks. So it just it's it's too crazy to even think about. But let's let's uh I digress and let's get back to where we need to be. So when you listen to the record, I think that you know, if you want to hearken back to being in that nostalgic field, I mean it's new music and it's good music, but when you want to hearken back to that vibe, it definitely is gonna pull you back in time. And that's that's a wonderful thing. And yes, I could have explored with them a little bit about their history, but there's no need to because as we've talked about off-camera, they've grown, they've matured, and even on camera we talked about that, that you get past those things. You know, something happens when you're in your 20s and your 30s, you're not quite who you are when you're in your 40s and your 50s. The older you get, the less you care. And I'm not saying you don't care about people, because you do, but you don't take criticism to heart. I mean, when I look back at my reaction to a review, and I haven't had any bad ones, knock on wood, but when I look back at reviews, I'm thinking, if I were younger, how would I have handled this? And I might have given up writing because of it. I might, you know, might not be doing this because it's an outside validation thing. And we've recently talked about outside validation on the podcast too. It's like you don't need to focus on outside validation. You need to do what makes you happy. And that's kind of the issue with social media. You know, besides the divide and conquer aspect of social media, we have the whole focusing on, oh, I got a like, I got the stats, this is awesome. And while as an artist and a creative, those stats help because you want to know that engagement. But it doesn't always translate. I can sit here and see that I've had 300 views on a video, or maybe more, and nobody's liked it. And it doesn't translate into a book sale. Now I could allow that to stop me from doing what I do. But the fact of the matter is I can't. I can't do that. I have to keep going because that's what keeps me living. It's part of who I am, it's part of my passion. And if I don't keep going, then why? So anybody that's a creative knows that. They know that that's part of who they are. And I think that we all have to keep focusing on that, building the music, and not let AI dictate who we are, because I can sit here, somebody said, Give me a story. While it may be awkward, I'm sure I could still come up with a story with dialogue and everything and just say it because it would call to me. So if you're creative, if you want to do music, do it. I mean, look at these guys. You know, take that chance. Mike took that chance. He he looked the he he listened to the demo or the instrumentals, and he created something. And that creation led to something even bigger. So don't sit there and say, Well, I shouldn't do that. Why not? What's the worst thing that's gonna happen? You fail, and if you fail, you pick yourself up, you dust yourself off, and you keep going. That is the main thing is to keep going and keep doing. And I mean, uh there's been times with the podcast that I think, well, maybe I should quit. Because, you know, I have listeners, I have regular listeners, but there are times when I think, well, what's the point of this? But the point is I get to have a conversation with people that I would never normally talk to because I they're out of state, they're out of the country, I can't say they're out of the world, or are they? But the fact of the matter is I get to do this. I get to put it out there. And from that I get an experience. And I give you an experience. So next time you want to do something, take the risk. As long as it's not gonna hurt somebody else, as long as it's not gonna hurt you, take the risk, be willing to take the risk. So on that note, I'd like to thank Fast Susie for the intro and outro music. I would like to thank Eddie, Mark, and Mike for coming on the show. And definitely check out me, the record, you know, all the good things. Check out the band if you can when they do start doing dates. And, you know, follow them on social media and follow them on the internet. It's the best way to keep up to date with anything and anyone. So, on that note, thank you guys for tuning in. No matter when you're listening, morning, noon, or night, I greatly appreciate it. And I'll catch you next time, guys. Bye.