SPEAKER_00 0:34

Welcome to the Better Two podcast. I'm your host, Donna. Today's guest, well, I'm kind of actually really happy to have him back. Christian Dryden from The Ritualist is back, and he's brought a friend, his guitarist, David Ardriana. And well, we talk about new music. We talk about the pending UK tour for The Ritualist, as well as a whole bunch of stuff. So tune in, guys. Hi, guys. How are you doing? I would like to welcome Christian back. And today he's brought a friend, his guitar player, David. So hi. Hello, hello.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Hello.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

So you got some big things coming. You have new music coming, but you also have a tour coming up. And that's one thing that we really want to talk about is your UK tour. Is this the first time we'll say as a band that you're going over there?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Very much so. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

And how excited are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:30

I'm extremely excited. I mean, um, as as you know, and we we previously discussed many, I I would say 95% of my personal influences, and I think even you could say about the band, our collectively.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Yeah. Yeah. It's like we're traveling to the motherland. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

You know, it's like so this is this the first time personally for each of you to go over there, or have you been there before to the motherland?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I have been to the motherland. Have you you've been over, right? I've been as a tourist, never as an artist. So this will be the first time playing playing music there. I've been there to just, you know, tour the city and everything. I love I love London. It's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Well, you could do what that school teacher did, because I know you're a Duran fan. Go knock on Simon's door and say you have a project for him. Because apparently he came out one day and took pictures with this woman as a school teacher. I saw that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Just don't get arrested. We need you for the shows. So no trespassing, you know. Please.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Well, I mean, he's got a real legit reason. He can sit there and say, you know, my band was on whoosh.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

That's right. I wonder if Simon would as he's being carried away.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

He'd say, my band was on whoosh. Okay. And he Christian knows this. I've been a Duran fan for a long time, and there used to be fans, I had pen pals in England, that would send me pictures of them outside of their houses meeting them. And I mean, there were some there were some not-so-pretty pictures, but there were pictures out there and they were used to people. So I don't think you'd get arrested. But then again, that was 30, 40 years ago. Times have to be.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, Times Ends. I I think you know, everyone I've spoken to who has had interactions with that band, they've all said they're really nice guys. They're pretty damn to earth and they're they're really kind to their fans. So um, I wouldn't be too nervous about it. And actually, one of the managers who's bringing us over to England is Nigel Hark, who uh manages Drown, who is Duran Duran's current guitar player. So he's sort of the one of the main reasons we were able to do this tour is Nigel. So thank you, Nigel.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Well, so who says that Nigel couldn't get an introduction to have someone come out and see your show?

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Um that may happen, you know. London. It's no promises have been made, but attempts, I think attempts will be made, but I don't think there are any promises.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

No. But it's always, you know, you can dream, can't you?

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Absolutely. Absolutely. And if it happens, you'll be the first to know. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Okay. Um, it's it's no big deal. Like I said, I've the only one I the only member I have not met is Andy. I've met everybody else. And I haven't really talked to Dom. I've seen Dom, but I did not talk to Dom. But yeah, so pretty much they're all decent guys, and I don't think you'd have a problem, and it wouldn't surprise me if Simon did show up at your show.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

Oh, that would be is Andy the wild one?

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Is he considered like the Andy was the original guitarist and he was a little outlandish back in the day, yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Um Andy was the wild one, not Simon. I'm sure they all were in the original.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

I have stories that I could tell that I will not tell on air. Um nothing too nothing really bad, but um they were uh they liked to party at one point.

SPEAKER_04 5:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Off air, I can tell you more, but on air I will not because you know I don't, yeah, I don't go there. But anyway.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

So they allegedly liked to party.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

You know, I worked in insurance for a long time, and my husband used to joke that was my favorite word, allegedly.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Allegedly.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yes. So we're not alleging anything. You're going on tour. Are you you know, we talked about the excitement. Are you worried about what's going on in the world while heading over there? Are you worried about coming back to the States or anything? Legit question. I know that's a damper, but I just have to ask, legitimately, are you concerned about getting back into this country? Getting back from England, going to England, or in general traveling in general, the whole travel thing.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

What do you go ahead, Dave? Um, everyone told me I've I've been traveling a lot lately, and there's no one at the airport. So as far as that goes, like that's been easy, but as far as just being uncomfortable being in another country or getting back into our country, um, I think we'll be fine.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

I mean, I have to be fair, guys. I pose these same questions too, like the when I talk to Ian Dentro and EMF in Lamont. So when they come over here, I ask them the same question. This is just reverse. So no offense taken or made. No, no. Um, I do want to talk about you have a new song, or am I wrong, called Messiah? That's going to be coming out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I saw that on Instagram a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

So we we have actually when we were recording the prior record, we laid the groundwork for an EP um with the same um producer Mario McNulty. And so we're just going to be touching up some vocals, and hopefully we'll have we'll have new material out probably before the end of the summer. And that is that is one of the songs. Yeah. And well, we may even play it on this tour and try it out, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Always best to do that. So what was the inspiration for it?

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Um the the skeleton, the bones of the song, I actually came up with after spending a lot of time with the Who's Tommy record. Um, I just, you know, I've I've always been a Who fan, but um I don't remember what it was, but something something in the press made me revisit it. And um I wanted I wanted to experiment with a song that had a lot of tempo changes because our our recent material is very, very dancy, which I which I like, and I and I like the way the crowds have been responding to it, but I wanted a sort of an outlier and something that would really sort of get very basic in the beginning and bring everything down, and then something that would really rise um in terms of intensity. And um I think that um I think Messiah sort of does that, and it's nice to have, you know, to throw a curveball into the set. I I thought we needed it. So that that was that was you know sort of the beginnings of and Dave can speak further about his guitar parts on the song. We we we we originally called the song Seismic Shift, which is basically the first line of the song, but I think Messiah makes a lot more sense if you if you really dig deeper into the lyrics.

SPEAKER_03 8:20

I'm glad you said that because I had no idea what we were talking about for a second there, because I still call it uh seismic shift in every set list. It's all said seismic shift. So I was like, oh, okay, yeah, Messiah. Um, that song is great, and it's something that breaks it up a lot just with like the all the tempo changes and just the changes with the keyboards coming in and things just kind of floating in and out. Um, I can't wait to hear the recorded version of that when it's mixed, just because I think the way that um we're working with Mario and he's done so many um his mixes are just automated and the events are flying by and it's almost like a cinematic movie. And I think that's gonna lend itself to however he approaches mixing that one. It's gonna be really cool.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Well, see, I have very limited knowledge because there's only a snippet on Instagram. So, you know, I I didn't have a lot to go by. So when it comes out, I will definitely dig into the lyrics and everything more.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

For sure, for sure. And I I I I I I appreciate you even even catching that online because we post so much material on Instagram. Um, so I appreciate the fact that you noticed that there was something new out there. Um, we also, when we're in England, we're we're going to be taking video and we'll probably compile some type of video to go with one of these new songs. So it'll be a video shot, you know, in London or something, and with one of the songs on the EP. That's that's that's another goal that we have with this trip tour trip.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

And you have you have well, I mean, it's a trip, it's a tour, it's all in one. I mean and you have uh you may have a little downtime there. I mean, you have three shows back to back, and then you have a day off, and then I'm sure that's travel day, but I'm sure you're gonna take a little bit of time to see around, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Actually, it's two, it's actually two and two. So we've got we've got um London and then Manchester, and that's Friday and Saturday, and then we have the Sunday off, and then we have um Reading and Nottingham. So it it vocally, I love that because I two nights in a row is great, three nights is good, four nights, you're really risking it. But so if we could do two with the with the day off in the middle, I can sort of be at my best for all of the all of the shows, which is what which is what you would want uh your first time playing these these cities.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Oh yeah, because you're representing yourself and you don't want your voice to cash out.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

You really don't know I know when we get on stage in London, I'm going to be so excited that I there I will run the risk of just shooting for the scars, and I need to have something in the tank for Manchester. So Dave, you'll have to watch me on that.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

No, I mean I'm just worried about that list of 32 pubs that I sent you guys the other day. So we gotta so systematically just knock all those off, you know, in between shows. I don't know how, but we'll get around to it. We'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

There there'll be a method to your madness, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Yeah, it's called no sleep. That's what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

As long as you can perform still, because you want people to love you, to follow you.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

True.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

And to create that audience so you know you can step up to the mantle and get more dates over there.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Yeah, that's the idea.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

So looking at your catalog of music, you have a you know, you were saying that you wanted to change it up. Your catalog is different, and I mean I'm not gonna lie, actually, one of your songs is going to be in one of my my next book that comes out um on the playlist. So even though it's set in the 80s, the 80s and 90s, it's still gonna be in there because I like the song a lot and it's darling. Um because it fit the mood of the yeah, so it fit it fits the mood of the the book, so it's on the playlist. Not that and the reason I do this, and I'm telling you this, is because maybe somebody else who because right uh readers like playlists, they may discover you. And so the more you people that put your stuff out there, the more people will notice you.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

That's amazing. You just made my day. Darling is a song we haven't thought of in quite a while. Um, so it and it's one of my favorites. It's it's one of the most difficult songs to sing, actually. Why? So you you you picked a challenging, a challenging one, but it but it's a personal favorite of mine, so I'm glad you like it.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

What was the inspiration behind it? Um if you care to share, if not, that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Um a lady, a lady friend. A lady friend, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

I kind of figured that's a good thing. I kind of figured, I mean, you know, but who knows? So when do you so are you going to because I know you have an EP release show for somebody else's EP, correct?

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Right. That's on May 1st.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Right, that's when you're coming back. So you're gonna are you gonna release a full record or are you going to just release an EP this summer when you have new music come out?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

I mean, that's that's a discussion we can have with our label, what they think with Mario and with our management. I mean, it's like the Wild West right now. I mean, I see bands and they're like three song EP, and then six months later, you know, full-length record is out, and those three EP songs are on the record. Yes. So I mean, it's wide open what we can do with it. So I think we really need to sit down as a band and figure out what we think is best and and speak to some other people because I'm open to uh opinions. You know, it's it's it's um, you know, nothing's set in stone.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

I mean, with the people that we have in our corner, it's really the it kind of dictates like going to England is something that happened really because of the people that are in our corner and the people that Christian has found that really lend support to us. And hopefully after we get back from going overseas, we can take that next step with these people that can kind of guide us and help us and say, hey, this is what you guys just did. This is what we need now, and we think that this is the best way to release all this material that we have. I mean, we want to push it out because I'm I think there's a lot of it, and a lot of it is really good. So, but we need we have you know another catalog of 30 songs or whatever you have, Christian, that's just there already that we still have besides stuff that's not recorded. So we we want to get it out. We absolutely want to get it out.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Well, then I have the question of do you want to do the single a month thing? I mean, I I know that a lot of people do that now because it keeps the in audience interested. But the fact of the matter is you're also diluting the pool, then, aren't you? You're not building up the anticipation of more new music.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

I think that's great, but what I don't think a lot of people get is that recording costs money. It's it's not just about having ideas. I mean, I don't think there's a lack of there there's never been a lack of ideas within the ritualists. So we could do something like that. But but you know, the the money is limited, the resources are limited. Um so that would again, that would be a label, that would be a Mario question, and um, or or any producer to be involved. But uh if if the demand were there for it, we could we could deliver that. Um but also you have to think about things like economic realities with that. I think it's it's that's very that puts a lot of pressure on people outside of just the artists, wouldn't you say, Dave?

SPEAKER_03 15:46

We went from what physical graffiti to a single a month, uh, you know, with a thumbnail. I want physical graffiti, you know, I want a double album, and the the material always lends itself. Christian has a concept. I don't even know if Christian knows this, but I feel like there is a concept that runs through things, and it's a record is a record. The way that it's presented is a record. The lyrics mean something. I like records, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah, I I have to I have to agree, you know. We're old school, we like we like records.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

I I like records. And here's the thing there is a pushback on the fact of everything being digital. People are starting to want that tangible, and that's where that's where if you play the long game, the pendulum swinging back to that. I mean, people are going back to cassettes. Let's think about that for a second. Cassettes that degrade, which I still have I have a whole milk crate of cassettes, by the way, yes, um, from back in the day. Um, but they're going people are going back to that. And they don't want to keep paying for subscription services, they want something tangible, which then also brings us to the other uh fly in the ointment for all creatives. It affects me, it affects you, which is AI. You know, the person that sits there and and puts in a prompt considers themselves a musician and they're not. And it's the same thing with a writer. I put in a prompt. I'm now an author. No, you're not, you're a prompter. How do you guys feel about AI? Or generative, let me let me rephrase that. Generative AI.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Go ahead, Dave. I don't know how to feel about it.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Um if you don't want to answer the question, that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

I just oh no, you gotta answer that question, right? I mean, I don't think it's cut and dry. I think it's the intention of why it's being used, and if it's being used correctly and you know what it is, and you're not trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes, it could be valid. I mean, I'm sure I've used it on on you know, this this thing to find something on the internet at some point.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

But that's different. Gender changes. Oh, and I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Yeah, yeah, I'm just clarifying for the thing. For creative purposes and saying that you're a singer-songwriter because you can um doesn't cut into my book, I don't think, but Christian, do you have an answer or no?

SPEAKER_00 18:06

That's okay if you don't.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Um I I think a lot of of AI generally, I hate to say this, but I mean it's it's a shortcut to thinking. Um, it's a shortcut to creating. And uh, but I mean at the end of the day, it's it's another tool. So maybe we will find a way to use it creatively where it can actually enhance the creative methodology or the experience. Um, so I mean, if you think of it like a hammer, you know, you could use a hammer to hammer a nail, which makes a lot of sense. You can also use a hammer to bash someone's face in, which you know, you know would be a crime. So there's good and bad uh with most schools. Um, and uh, I mean, currently I'm not a I'm not a big fan of it, and I certainly don't want to listen to any AI generated art or view any AI generated art. But if you have a basic question that you have, and you you know you ask ChatGPT something and it gives you an answer that that's helpful in some way, um, I guess it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

I've I recently found myself in a Tesla, and uh the gentleman who was showing off this car to me was putting on music and it was Guns N' Roses, but everything was re-recorded. Um, it was AI versions of all these songs with a real vocalist on top of it. And what scared me is this guy had no idea that he was listening to Guns N' Roses, but everything, you know, 80s playlists, that was not the real music. It wasn't real music made by real people at all. And somebody finally, like three or four songs in it in the backseat, was like, Hey, um, can you put on the real versions of like these actual these songs? But it's scary, you know. There's some people like that you can't hear it, and it's only gonna get better, you know, at replicating human.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Well, MIT came out, you were talking about how Chat GPT can give you an answer. MIT came out with a study that actually says that ChatGPT and OpenAI, those kind of sources, are actually telling you what you want to hear in most cases. And that and that there's a detriment that they're meant not making you smarter. And I'm just saying, in general, I'm not talking about you personally or anything like that. This is that it's making people dumber, it's making them think less. And it's like, okay, so we're losing critical thinking because let me type into a computer.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

I 100% agree with that. That does not shock me at all. But what this might do um in the long run, I'm trying to see a silver lining here, is it might put a premium on artists performing live. Because as it stands right now, AI can't put on a live rock show or a live concert musically, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:53

And neither can half of our heroes at this point. They're all lip syncing. I mean, you know, if if we're gonna keep going that way, AI is that next step. And no, you need to identify it and break away from that immediately. Like musicianship will become a premium. The real thing is not gonna die. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Well, look, it might help us in the end. It might it might be something that makes, you know, a ritualist show more unique because we're not miming or something like that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Well, I mean, what was it 10 years ago when they were starting to do like Tupac and Whitney Houston and putting them in a hologram and have them sing along? Which is not the same exact thing because they're just playing an overdub, but sure, where does this change? No, and to your point about Guns N' Roses, when Celine Dion released a song, her cover of I I Drove All Night, my friend's daughter was in college and she's like, Oh my gosh, this is the best song. I just love it. I'm like, that's not an original. She's like, What? Of course, it wasn't an original for Cindy Lauper either, but yeah, it was one of those things that's like each generation has their own version, but when something Is deliberately recording it and they don't know, you have to tell them. You you have to say, This is AI. Pay attention.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Now to be a non- Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Well, I think actually Dave and I geek out even deeper than this as hardcore music fans, rock history fans, where we'll talk about bands playing live. And um, for instance, I I'll have conversations with my friends about going to a Radiohead concert and going to see, you know, uh a band like The Verve or something. And they're they're both sort of contemporaries, but the concerts are completely different because Radiohead get on stage and they do it exactly like it is on the record. And it's great, it's very impressive that they can sound just like the album, right? So that that's that's that's one slice of the pie. But then you have the other, the alternative to that, which is you know, secret band like The Verb, or back in the day, if you listen to Old Doors concerts live, like every time they did the song, it was like a different animal. It was like a unique experience for the ticket buyer, for the concert goer on that particular night. And those bands can be a lot of fun to see live. And I mean, now we're we're so far from the idea of an AI type performance when you're when you're talking about every night we do this song, and it's going to be a little bit different. The solo is going to go this way, or the singer's going to change this, the vibe at the end of the song, or what he says, or the lyrics. And I think I think that's really cool. And and I think there may be even more of a premium put on bands that are capable of improvising a little bit live. You know, I'm not talking about jam bands per se.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

No, I know.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

But just a band that has the chops and the capability of going off on little tangents that take the audience on a on a unique journey for that particular night. And maybe maybe bands will get more into doing things like that.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Because I think that's cool. That's I would love longer set lists. You know, that that's one thing because we have the ability to do that. We love to do that, and it's just a matter of time, you know, time, physical, actual time on stage to be able to explore those avenues. But if you're one thing that AI, and I this will probably age poorly, will never have is it's it can inspire itself. So when we when we play, this is sounds like a big head or whatever, but if you're listening to people that inspire you, you start to play a different way. And that makes everything an event or everything special or the potential to be special and different. Sometimes you fall flat on your face, but I'd rather pay someone to see that than just stock, you know, hologram avatar with the same playlist and the same thing that you saw 13 nights, you know, previous.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Yeah, that's not interesting. Feeding off the energy of the crowd and as an audience member, getting a sense that man, anything could possibly happen. This guy could say anything, that guitar player, he might completely screw up and fall on his face, or he might do something brilliant. I think that is one of the allures of a of a live rock and roll show. And right now, Swaite, I mean, these guys are, I think they're in their 60s and they're they're touring every single night. If you look up their set list, it's a completely different show. Every single and they have a group of people who just follow them around and go to every single show and they get a completely different experience every night of the tour. I think that's really cool. It's cool.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

It is. To your point about AI, one thing it doesn't have, it doesn't have the soul, it doesn't have the passion, it doesn't have, you know, and that's what makes being a creative and making art, whatever kind of art you make, is all about. If you don't have that passion, then then it's gonna feel flat and the audience is gonna know it. And to your point about shows, I saw DePesh Mode in the 90s uh a couple of times. And Depeche they sounded just like the record. In fact, they sounded so much like the record that they ended up putting out a concert record.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

That basically 101 or it was songs of faith and devotion, I believe. Devotion, okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah, and and then they have the concert record. It was just kind of like it sounds the same. It's a good show, it was a good show, don't get me wrong. But it was just one of those things like, wow, you really nailed that. And part of me as an artist sat sat there going, now were they really singing or was this Limp Sync? So it was just too clean, too perfect. But you know, who knows? It was a good show.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah, you never know for sure. But uh yeah, I mean uh look, that's very impressive to be able to recreate exactly what you've recorded. That that is that's impressive, but I think giving the live experience something a little bit special is also maybe you know, you could find a happy medium. Well, that's the best way to do it.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

I think the last time we we talked, we talked about me going to LiveAid and the fact that Led Zeppelin's performance at LiveAid, it was bad. It was very bad. It was so bad that they didn't want it released, re-released. Um, Duran, you know, Simon had the bum note that was heard round the world. That was the headline because he's his voice cracked in the middle of a high note. And so that but the thing about that is, and it goes to your point about each night being special, that it could be total garbage, but most of the time when you're in that crowd, you are so wrapped up in the emotion of the crowd and being there and present that you're forgiving of those moments.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Absolutely. Yeah, I'd love I'd rather hear his voice crack than have him lip sync.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

True, very true, very, very true. So when you got the call about being on Wish, because I know, see, last time we talked, you were trying to get that done. And so when when it actually happened, how was that for you?

SPEAKER_01 27:53

It was exciting, and what's what's great about Simon's show is that I think he takes real pride in the fact that he chooses the song that's going to be played. So we as a band were you know, we're discussing, like, I wonder what he's going to play, and we were taking bets on which song it would be. And um You owe me money. Yeah, that's true. Because they've called it, it was you know better. And um it was cool because when he introduced the song, he said, you know, they have a lead single off of their new record, but I'm not playing that one. I like this one better. And then he played, he played, you know, and typical Simon Fashion, you know. Um, so I mean that's that shows like he's really listening, it shows real care, and that's really impressive for somebody on his level to just take the time to do that. I mean, it's an honor.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it for him to sit there and decide that song versus that means he listened to the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

And yeah. So that's that's gotta be kind of a uh I don't know, I don't want to say warm fuzzy, but it's gotta be a full a feather in your cap because somebody that you've looked up to has listened to your work.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah, and and and and commented positively about about the music. And he, you know, he played a song off the prior record, Broken Bleeding, and you know, the fact that he's he's come back for more, so to speak. Yeah, he didn't hate it, you know. So um that would be really cool. And and and and certainly if if I get to meet him, I will remind him that he has played us on his radio show and see if you know, see how he reacts to that. It would probably be pretty comical.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Well, that's kind of why if he's played you twice, that's kind of why I said you never know, he may show up at your show. Yeah, if he recognizes the ritualist, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah, he played the first track um that he chose off Baroque, which was not a single at all. I mean, you know better, we have a we have a video for, but the uh on on off of Baroque, he chose for the song Forbidden Love, yeah, which was not pushed at all. And and the PR company that was pushing us wasn't they weren't advertising that single. So he went in and he he played that and he played it multiple times that season of the show. So it was really cool that he that he uh he took a liking to it and then he played this new one. So maybe he'll play it a few more times. Let's hope.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Hopefully, hopefully, yeah. I I know Christian and I have talked about who inspired him to play. So, David, if you need to go stir your sauce, you can. David, um, who are your idols?

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Oh my god, I have to look over um everything from the Beatles to Z Z Top. I mean, to yes, no, let's stop it. Yes, we'll stop it, yes. Um, I mean, with with uh with the AI thing, and when okay, get not to get back to that, but I almost feel like we're playing punk music now because in the in the current climate, we are now punk. We're DIY, we're actually playing real instruments, if that makes any sense. So anyone that's out there actually playing real instruments, that's inspiring to me now. I mean, the fact that we live in New York and you can go out and I can see the greatest players in the world, you know, and and young kids, like really young kids, I'm talking about. Like that's the stuff that I'm finding inspiring. We're all, you know, Bowie, we obviously love. Um 70s Prague, we all love 80s synth rock, everything from Depeche Mode to Kaja Goo to, you know, um Van Halen in the 80s, which I love the synth poppy stuff, which we argue about often, but we we really listen to everything.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

But who inspired you to play guitar?

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Ace Fraley.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Okay. Why?

SPEAKER_03 31:47

That's it. Why he's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

I know, but I'm just trying to I mean every everything about him.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

He he looks cool, he sounds cool, he was the uh he was the rebel of the band. Um although Christian would tell you that Peter Chris was the rebel of that band, but you know Yeah, I mean what what more could you want? Hot hotshot guitar player from the Bronx. That's all you need.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

When did you pick up the guitar?

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Uh like third grade?

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Acoustic or electric?

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Um electric technically, but there were acoustics lying around the house before then. But my first was a uh was actually like a small fender strat, like a student model, small body. And I wish I still had it. But I got rid of that, sold a bunch of stuff to get a Les Paul because everyone has to be like Israeli.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

So I take it somebody else in your household was a guitar player?

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Yeah, my dad knocked around with one for a while. So um hot blooded, he used to play a lot, you know, late 70s, you know, kind of stuff. So failed Zeppelin, failed Zeppelin attempts, you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Hey, we all pick up a guitar. Well, not all of us, but most of us pick up some kind of musical instrument because we have the dream of being a rock star.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

We may not ever pursue it like you guys, but we do try occasionally. At least one performance in our lifetime, hopefully. So where do you see yourself in? I would say a year from now.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Hopefully touring, playing more. I mean hopefully back back in Europe playing shows. If they like us, then we'll come back. And we gotta get uh back down south by the end of this year, too. For for some reason, the south enjoys us and we love them, so we try to go there. We were going like twice a year for a while. But yeah, we haven't been back.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

We've we've had a focus on this this upcoming tour, so we've we've somewhat neglected um the south, and that's that's a mistake because we do well down there, and I think it's because they they really appreciate live rock music where where the band actually puts on a show and they're not shy about you know spending, you know, buying the records, buying the t-shirts, and and that's really how the band truly makes money off of these tours. So it enables us to go down there a lot um because we know we're always going to you know be all right financially doing so. And and it's so much fun. And all of those little those little I call them like craft cities down there, they're so interesting, and the food's great. And you know, people people show up at a show in in Chattanooga with uh ritualist shirts on and eyeliner, you know, in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Yeah, it's it's it's kind of shocking, actually. But um, so so we really get a kick out of it. It's a it's a lot of fun, and we have a lot we made a lot of friends down there, and and and um all of the guys who who run the venues down there are really kind to us um and welcoming. So that that's that's another gold.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

Um they're invested. And when when they're invested, it just makes you more invested, you know. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

So what came first, the friendship or being in the band together?

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Oh, the band. Wait, this is a much longer story though. Because see, okay, so it was it five years before we we were in the band?

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Um yeah, it was it was a little before I was I was actually, yeah. So so I was I was in a musical, I was the lead in a in a musical called Save the Robots.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Wait, I I I have to interject though. So I knowing what I know from the production side of this musical, they needed a rock star, and somebody fell in love. Uh I I don't remember there were two producers on it, Christian, or something like that, but someone felt saw you at a show and was like, that's the guy. So they brought up, they brought the rock star into this show that I was affiliated with. But anyhow, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Sorry, head clear that that's fine. Yeah, yeah, interject as you like. Um, yeah, so so this woman saw me um performing with my band in Brooklyn just at a at a show and asked me if I wanted to be in a musical, if I'd ever done musical theater. No, no, I hadn't. Um, would you come please come and audition for this thing? And I found myself in this show as the lead, which made a lot of the cast members very unhappy because they were like trained musical theater people, and I didn't know what the heck I was doing.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

I was the lead in this show, and Dave Stern was was was involved in the product directing or something.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so Dave and I, I I guess we like saw each other from across the room, but never actually you know spoke.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Um go ahead. Well, five years five years later, or about then, I was uh I was in a band that I just recognized was not not gonna go anywhere. So pulled the escape hatch and uh answered an ad. Was it where'd you post that, Christian?

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Um oh god, I think it was on Craigslist.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Was it Craigslist?

SPEAKER_01 37:12

The Dregs of the Dregs. And he came out and um he he auditioned for the band, and he there were other guys who knew the who knew the material better, but I remember speaking. He still doesn't at the time afterwards, and he and I was like, What did you think of that guy? And my drum was like, Oh, he he's okay, you know, he's a like he didn't really he didn't really learn the songs entirely. I said, No, he didn't. I said, but he's a better player, like the guitar sounded better when he was playing it, and he has the potential to be really, really good if we start working with him. I said, he he reminded Dave actually reminded me a bit of Jeff Beck, the way he approached everything, and I liked that. And I dug it, and I and and um, and we we took a chance and went with the guy who didn't who didn't learn all the songs, and uh and it and it paid off because he's he's stuck around, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

But see, you have to look at this, and I'm gonna go with the metaphysical event thing here. You guys crossed paths before, and you didn't necessarily connect, and then it comes back. My my late husband and I, we actually worked down the street from each other. Did not know. I took a class, and this teacher is telling me how I need to take another class to meet this person in there. I'm like, okay, it was his ex-girlfriend who he was still friends with. So I start hanging out with her and him and I meet, and we got married and everything. But see, this is what I'm getting at. We worked down the street from each other, most likely past each other several times at restaurants and everything, did not know each other. And so I think you choosing Dave and you having that intersecting point prior, it most likely was faded.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

But you know, yeah, yeah, I think I think there's a lot of truth to that. And and actually one of the reasons um we're able to have such such a of an enormous catalog of um original material is because Dave is such a quick study. You know, if I you know some of these songs have a lot of chords, not intentionally, but you know, I write chords to go with the lyrics or to go with the vocal line. And you know, Dave is just he's on it with the chord voicing ideas, and he you show him something once and he's able to just do it. And I've worked with with musicians in the past where you know they're they're more human, and and it's it's much more difficult to to churn out new material because you spend a lot of the time just like trying to get somebody to memorize the chord progression or something. Dave does not have that problem. He's just the minute you show him something, he just he remembers it. And uh so it makes it makes my life a lot easier as well. So I think my instincts were correct with him with the audition when I saw that in him. I'm a I'm a I don't play guitar, but I'm I'm a child I totally geek out. Great guitar work. I love I love guitar players. Um, I love you know, I love a band with a with a cool guitar player whose guitar parts sound like he's you know an alternate vocal line and stuff. So I I I listen, I really listen to the guitar.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Well, and I want to say, Dave, you know, unlike you know better, your guitar riffs, you kind of the song is a very heavy song. It's a good song and it's upbeat, but it's there's a heaviness to it. And your guitar adds this lift to it to bring it to a different level where it lifts up that heaviness. And it it's not a bad s I like that song a lot. I do. I love that song extra. The guitar just changes it a little bit. The heaviness I like because it's got that good drive to it, but then you add the lighter to it.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Everything honestly was is everything dovetails with the keyboards. I mean, you know what Christian's gonna sound like, you know that it's gonna have that. I call it that early 70s growl. I mean, you know what I'm that ampeg early 70s thing. We can build on top of that, but Jeff does so many amazing things sonically that just fitting the guitar lines in there with him is I mean, he's amazing. I I I wish he was here on this interview because he could tell you so much more than I know about just the sonic things that the band does. But that's that's where that comes from. It's really just working together to fit it all in.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Well, that's the important part about being in a band is working it all together. And he's an amazing player, so and then having that producer take it to the next level is even more important sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

You gotta you have to trust people. I mean, with the producer, we we've sat down and you know, sometimes somebody will say, you know, I really I didn't like the way he did that, but I would have never thought of it. And sometimes, you know, somebody comes up with something, and I sometimes I wonder how Christian feels when it's like we're uh we're murdering his children or something. Sometimes you gotta take into, you know, that maybe we shouldn't do that because he wasn't hearing it quite that way, but you know, everyone does that, takes it into account and tries to weave around each other.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Well, that's yeah, it I think it's it's it's like when you're working with these guys who are who are you know who I mean Mario was working with David Bowie, you know, he's worked with Prince, he's he's mixed T-Rex live recordings. His his approach um to the band and and the songwriting and this and and the song structure was very enlightening because he he's I I started out as a drummer, and Mario is a drummer first and foremost. So his first instincts were let's set the table, set the foundation in a very specific manner rhythmically. And that's very different from Ed, who did Broken Bleeding. Ed is much more interested in what's on top. You know, Ed Ed was a masterful at mixing the vocals and the vocal effects and having the guitars and the keyboards swirling all over the place, which I love as well. But for Mario, it was like, you know, let's focus so much on the foundation, and and it was a great um opportunity for us because for to pure to cure record, the stuff is is it is dancier. So it requires that sort of mentality, I think. I think Mario um was uniquely qualified to mix these these particular songs. Um and we I think we all we all of us learned a lot from him about the approach.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Do you find that with the way the world is, and just speaking in general generalities, is it a are you writing differently as far as your song is in your music? Are you writing more inspired or are you writing a little bit more more dark and brooding?

SPEAKER_03 43:45

We've always been dark and brooding.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Yeah, I think dark and brooding is what inspires me much of the time.

unknown 43:53

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

I I mean I mean, uh all the poetry that I like, most of the literature that I read. It's a lot of escapism. I mean, I'm not trying to be Bruce Springsteen, you know. Um, I'm not I'm not into the heavy messaging stuff. I respect that stuff, and I think it's cool, and they're and I think it belongs in the world, and it's it's good that it's there. But um I want I want to take people into another world um with with with our stuff. I want to I want to be like uh we're in another dimension, you know, this this dark, psychedelic, um, glittering place that's completely removed from everything I deal with every day at work or whatever, or the the you know, the craziness that's going on with current events. Um so that I mean it I with us, I think it's much more about escapism.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Well, that's kind of where I was going. I should have said escapism with the more positive eye, because we all do need an escape right now.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Yeah, I think I think you know, we always do. I mean, even when things are going great, it's it's still I think it's like um psychologically like it's like a purification ritual, you know, going to a concert. Like that's that's why we're called the ritualists, you know. It's like it's like a purification ritual, like you go to this place and and you and you have this experience that is completely, you know, takes you out of your routine and and and somebody who makes you think or view things a little bit differently. And I and I like to believe that lyrically, if people can even understand what the heck I'm singing, I hope some of them do, that I that I kind of give them a different perspective on things. Um, so in in that in that way, I guess we impact the real world. But the majority of my stuff is is it's it's flowery and it's it's meant to be otherworldly. That's intentional.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Do you ever have people come up to you saying how much a lyric meant something to them?

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Uh I have, yes. It's very flattering. I I I do appreciate that when people notice my lyrics. Um, and and it's happened on a few occasions.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Or when people sing them back to you, and it's just that's that that is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

I mean, it's part of our it's it's actually become part of our live show where we have the crowd sing the chorus of uh painted people back to us. And you know, that song was actually written about my experiences with my with my friends on the lower east side. Um, so that has become something of a ritual. Every show, and we get people to do it wherever we are. You know, we did we had them doing it in um where the heck? Oh, in Philadelphia a few weeks ago, and we and they'll and we'll get them to do it at Atlanta, Georgia, and it's become a thing. It used to just be a New York thing, but now I I make it my mission, my goal of the show. It was like by the end of this concert, I'll have their attention enough so that they'll they'll sing back this lyric when I ask them to, and and it's that's that's usually works. So it's refreshing and rewarding.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Well, and you know you have the audience uh in the palm of your hand if you can get that them to do that. Yeah, that's the idea. What is your dream gig?

SPEAKER_03 47:14

Live aid. There we go. I mean live.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

You have to have a time machine to go back.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

Right. You you put us on a playlist for uh for 1985, did you say we would?

SPEAKER_00 47:29

This book is set in the the 90s, 95. It's set in the 95, okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:33

So we almost got in a time machine with you to go back to live eight. Almost almost.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

And I'll be fair, the the book is called Goldilicks in the Bear Brothers band. It was supposed to be a retelling of Goldilocks and the Three Bears, and I write rock star romance, so I decided to play it a little differently. And Goldilicks kind of sounds a little perverse. Um, but she's a female guitar player.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

So I have to ask, is the King's X song Goldilocks in your playlist?

SPEAKER_00 48:03

I guess I should well I haven't finished the book yet. Okay, so I couldn't give that track a listen.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

Good track.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

You can you can give David credit on the uh I will I'll give him a thank you if I but yeah so it was I decided, like I said, Goldilicks. I'm like, well, it works both ways, it's perverse if you want to go that route.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

And then so yes, as far as it's sort of a dream gig, like a gig that's happened already that we would like to have been at, or something like no no, something in the future.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

I mean, he went with Blyve A, but I was talking about in the future, something that you could actually do.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Oh, I would I think that the coolest thing would be um to I mean, obviously Madison Square Garden, that's that's that's our backyard, and that would be you know incredible. Um, but like live at Pompeii, you know, playing playing amongst those runes, like just setting up and doing a show there, sort of like you know, Pink Floyd did way back in the day. I think that would be it'd be incredible. Um, and I think it it suits the band thematically as well. I think we would fit in really well at a place like Pompeii if they would ever let us do it.

SPEAKER_03 49:13

How about Fiddler's Elbow? I I think is the gig that I am that's gonna be my number one gig in London on Friday the 17th. That's the gig. That's the one.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

After you've achieved that, yeah, then what?

SPEAKER_03 49:28

Then Pompeii or Vesuvius, but Vesuvius would probably explode if we showed up. So it's really it's you know, we'll stick with fiddlers of them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

The Acropolis in Athens would be great, like like Yanni. But I was gonna say we'll all have the yeah, the mustaches.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

If you could collaborate with one person, who would it be?

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Dave, you should answer that.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

No, no, no, you each get a shot here.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Yeah, you answer first, Dave.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

Uh deceased or living? Doesn't it matter?

SPEAKER_00 49:59

I'll let you, I'll give you it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 50:01

You can't do this to me. I mean, Miles Davis, but he would just run me out of the room. So yeah, I I I I don't think that that could happen.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Okay, so somebody that you would feel more comfortable with.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

Christian Dryden.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Oh no, that's cheating. That's cheating.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

You can say another vocalist, Dave. I won't be hurt, don't worry.

SPEAKER_03 50:24

Oh, well, then we're just talking dream bands, then it you know it becomes like uh any any like you know, just plop me into yes or plop me into King Crimson or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

What about kiss?

SPEAKER_03 50:37

Absolutely. Okay, any any day.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

Okay, okay, and Christian.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Oh, let me think. Uh I a particular artist, I mean, I as a co-write, I really think it would be interesting to write a song with Brian May.

unknown 50:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Just because I love his ideas. Um but I mean, I would I would I mean, I also love Nick Nick Rhodes from Duran Duran, and I think it would be really cool to see what he would do, even just to have him produ I know he does production as well. I tell you, just to hear yeah, he did the he did the Dandy Warhol's record, that's really cool. So I I think Nick would be incredible uh producing this band. I think his ideas, he I love to see him working with our keyboard as Jeff, who is a Nick Rhodes fanatic. Um, and I I think that would be that would be a dream gig for this band to have Nick Rhodes producing this.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

I got to talk to Lamal about how that all came about for Kaja, which was pretty much yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

I read about that. That didn't he see Nick in like a restaurant and he was a market.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Yes, he was a waiter. He was a waiter at a restaurant, and he took a shot and went over there and said, Hey, I'm in a band, and yeah. He produces Too Shy by Kaja Goo.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

Did he do that whole record or just a single?

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Wow. Yeah. So we talked about when Lamal was on last summer, I talked to him about that, which was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

But yeah, Lamal checked out our video for the wake and dug it. We had a we have a quote from him on our site about it. He dug the he dug the video because I you know the the the never-ending story comparisons I spoke about in the PR leading up to it. So I I love that song, and I I mean I I love Too Shy. The bassist in that band, um, in Kachi looks incredible. Um, I can't think of his name offhand, but he's a school bass.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

I keep thinking as Nick Beggs, and I don't think that's it. Um, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

Is that Beggs, right? Yeah, I follow him on Instagram. He he he puts out really interesting stuff. Like he he's invented things for the bass, like the guy is you know, on another level. Wow, actually.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

One of the funniest things I talked to Lamal about though was back this is gonna age me, and you guys aren't gonna know what we're talking about, but Donnie and Marie used to have a variety show back in the 70s, and they had these white microphones, and so Lamal starts besides singing on the podcast, um, he's talking about how he really wanted one of those white microphones when he was when he started performing. He's like, I just wanted a white one, and I'm like, he's like, I've never gotten it. I'm like, okay. But it was small dreams, but sometimes, you know.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

So he's a heck of a singer. He's a great singer. Yeah, really impressive.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

He broke out into song many a times on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 53:42

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Yeah, it was kind of funny. You just start singing, I'm like, okay. Um so what do you think? What is your biggest hope out of this whole tour that's coming on? That's the question.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

The biggest, I mean the simple, basic hope is we are, you know, it goes over well and we can come back and do it again. I mean, that's that's you know, step one. Um obviously a bigger hope would be we make some sort of connection that elevates the band and we we end up you know getting onto some type of national tour. Um I think that would be a major success if something like that happened. Um so I think it's it's it's going to be really important for us to get you know in front of the management over there and get introduced to the people they're working with. And hopefully, you know, we find uh we find a partner to go out and do more things with. I think that that that's probably probably the big the big goal of the tour.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

And then I can say I've interviewed them twice when they were they were a smaller art artist and now they don't have time for me anymore.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

No, no, we'll always have time for you. I mean it it's it's not like you know back in the 70s or something where you would have to fly in and then you know sit there across the table. We can just we can do this remotely anytime.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

This is true. And I'm really disappointed because last time when I ended the podcast with him, he told me I'm gonna bring somebody back and we're gonna wear costumes. You didn't wear a costume.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Oh, I said that, yes. No, I said I would I would dress better because I didn't mean a costume, and just what yeah, I think the ball.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

Yeah, no, because right Raby had set me up with with with a few interviews before this one, and they were like, I had I had gotten like you know, you know, try to look presentable, and they were just like phone interviews. So I'm like, I thought this was that, and I was I was just like you know, in in lounge, right? So I I promised that I would try to look a bit more presentable for this interview. We should take a few screenshots so we could use it for the uh to add to add with some of the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

I will I will put some screenshots up and I will also do some promo stuff. But I mean I've relaxed now. I'm wearing a t-shirt. Last time I was all dressed up. I'm like, after going bald, after going bald, it's kind of like you know what, everybody else is comfortable. Okay. It's time for me to be comfortable too.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

And how are you feeling, by the way? How are things going? You you had said you were doing all right?

SPEAKER_00 56:27

I'm doing all right. I mean, it got bad at a certain point, and I was still, as I was telling Dave earlier, I was still doing the podcast and continued to go through, even being bald. Um, and I bought a wig and I was I wore it for a couple of podcasts, and I had this guest who uh leaf blower, a heavy metal guy group, that they had a mask at where the band would all wear a mask. Um so one of the guys in the band who there was two I was interviewing, he had a mask on. And I thought to myself, if I'm gonna go bald on any podcast, this is the one to do it, because it's already outlandish. And after that, I went completely bald on the podcast, and that was it. I did the podcast up until my last two chemo treatments, and then I couldn't do it anymore.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

So I took about I think I think keeping to you know the things that you love and keeping to your your routines that you enjoy at least, I think that's important, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Mentally and just to keep you the only thing that kept me the only thing that kept me going during the worst of it was I would come in here and write. I would come back into my office because I couldn't do the podcast anymore. And that and that's what I told Ray at the time was I needed to do the podcast because it kept me going, it kept me motivated, it kept me being social because I couldn't really be social outside. And when it got too bad, I would come in here and write. And that would be the life-saving thing. It's always about being creative. I don't know about you guys, but if you don't play music for a while, at least for me, if I don't write, it starts taking me down. So I'm sure if you guys were not playing for a while, even under the worst situations, there's still gonna be that call to you.

SPEAKER_03 58:08

You have to do it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Yeah, even even when we don't rehearse for you know a little while, we take time off from that. I get antsy, I start to feel a bit down. So absolutely I think you're right.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

But at least for you, you can always start singing.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 58:27

But there's something about being in a room, you know, on tour when he's singing in the bathroom, and that's all you hear for four floors. Four floors. The manager's calling up. What is this madness? Why is he amplified? I'm like, he's not amplified, he's in the freaking shower.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

I'm a loud singer, yeah. I'm loud.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

Well, as long as you're not keeping up other guests, it's okay. I mean, there's other ways that it could be more distracting for guests, which we won't talk about, but you know, singing is is okay. It's okay. So is there anything that we have not really talked about that you want to add?

SPEAKER_01 59:07

I think we've covered a lot. David, would you like to add anything?

SPEAKER_03 59:11

I don't think so. We we haven't said Eric's name, so I just want to say Eric's name. Eric here and include him in the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

And Eric Eric is who?

SPEAKER_03 59:20

Our drummer.

unknown 59:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

And he's a great guy. And a great drummer.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Yeah, sure. And it's coming from another drummer, so it's gonna be important you say that. Well, I thank you guys for coming on.

SPEAKER_02 59:36

Thank you for having us. Yeah, this was fun. And hopefully we could do it again. Hopefully.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

So, as I said in the introduction, it was about a year ago that I talked to Christian, and it was when Too Pure to Cure came out. And it was a record that I absolutely adore. I still enjoy listening to it. And the one thing when we talk about music, it kind of fits moments in our life. It gives us hope, it gives us the ability to dance, it gives us emotion, it gives us feeling. And that kind of goes to the AI conversation we had as well. Because as I said during that, it lacks AI lacks depth. Generative AI lacks depth, it lacks passion. And recently, I think I had made mention of this not too long ago, that I did a book with somebody. Well, it was more along the lines of I was presented with this book and this person wanted help. And I remember when this person, you know, when I'm going through the manuscript and I had no ideas, I had never fooled with any kind of generative AI with prompting. So I know nothing about what prompts look like. And there were some notes I ran across that kind of made me question things. But there was one scene in particular that really stood out, and this talks about lack of passion because the character had not seen their mother in X number of years. And when you look at that, there was no emotion. She was just like, oh, not to mention her mother was being tortured at the time, too. And there was nothing. There was no emotion, there was no anger, there was no, it was just kind of like, and an AI is not gonna understand that feeling. That AI is not gonna understand, you know, that there's gonna be abandonment, there's gonna be pain, there's gonna be happiness because she's still alive, maybe. You know, there's so many mixes of emotion, but there was none. And so when you when you take that and you put that toward music, recorded music, we're not talking live because that's a whole but different beast. And I kind of agree that that is a premium thing because you're having a live experience. So when you take that to music, if we are creating the same kind of music, or AI slop, however you want to call it, um, that just repeats and is nothing, nothing that is passionate, nothing that is creative. I mean, when I listen to certain music, if I think back to certain songs, there's certain songs that have a sensual quality to it. And if you took the passion out of that, how would that work? Um, Donna Summers, Love to Love You Baby, is a great song. And when she talks about recording it, she talks about laying on the floor and getting into the vibe and the mood of it. If you took her emotion, her feelings, her mood out of that, of how she's taught, you know, she was told to basically sing longing and aching. If you take that out of that, what do you have? You have music, you have a track, but the sensuality would be gone. And so you can't create that if you don't know it. And I'm sure AI eventually will know those things and create those things. But it lacks the human experience. And we're not even going to talk about the environmental concerns of the water usage and the electrical usage and the impact that how it raises temperatures. And we're and as I said on on the podcast, we talked, you know, the MIT study and what it shows. But going back to the ritualist, Christian made a statement about it's a ritual to go to an event. And that's the truth. It's the truth of going to an event and having that experience and having that motivation of being connected with people. Because I can stay in my house and not go to the movie theater. But I can sit here and remind, remember a feeling of going to see a movie with a group on opening night. And I think it was Air Force One with Harrison Ford. And how the crowd reacted, how the crowd was invested. Even going to see some of the Rocky movies back in the day, there was a crowd experience, there was an investment of emotion that people were cheering like it was a real fight. And that's the thing. You can't get that by being isolated and not having that human experience. Sure, you know, people are dating the AI, AI-generated person, but that's not going to be that connection. And how does this tie into the UK tour? Well, it does because people are going to come out and see. And just like he was describing, people singing back to him, you know, David brought it up that having somebody sing your words back to you is kind of freaky. But there's also a power in there. And I've talked about this before about being in a skybox, seeing a Depeche Mode show, because at the time I was producing a TV show, so I got perks. But being in the skybox, and when they backlit the audience because they were supposed to sing out to the crowd, I had that moment of being up on stage, even though I wasn't, I was higher than everybody else, even the performers. But being there and being in that moment, there was that sensation of feeling like you're part of that, feeling like that energy, that feeling of the energy being pulled off the crowd. And we don't talk about that. We are all energy, and there's an energy connection, whether it be a live performance or sitting in the movie theater or even just our daily activities. When we step out into the world, there's an energy exchange. Even the podcast talking, you know, you listening to me, there's an energy exchange. Or me talking to Christian and David, there's an energy exchange. And you have to Embrace that and live life. And by doing so, you experience things. And that is something that AI will never fully understand. Because it's learning what it is, as far as I'm reading books, but it's not really learning. It's being taught. I mean, it's come out like the self-driving car, the Waymoo. Somebody else is driving that thing in a different country at some point. It's not always driving by itself. So what we need to do is become more human again. And that's why digital media, while it's great, people are getting tired of the subscription aspect. People want the real stuff. They don't want to go to a show and pay for some to watch somebody lip sync. They want the reality, they want the real stuff. And I'm happy that they're going over to London to do this. And I'm sure there's going to be more dates. But that's the thing. We need that connection. And one thing that certain things happened in the pandemic that took that took us away from that. And we're all still trying to find a new normal. I mean, even for me, and I've talked about that, is the grieving process for me was different. And even having cancer has been different. Because for me, I am having to learn to build a network again. And I still haven't done that. Because it takes a lot to be able to do that. So to wrap this all up for me, when you guys listen and tune in, that means something to me because at least I know I'm valued. I'm here, I'm having people listen to what we're talking about. It's something valued for my guest. And then I get the value of talking to them and then sharing it with you. And so those are the important things with connection. And if you have the opportunity to go see the ritualist, I would do it. Um if they ever come out closer to me, I will go do it because I would love to see them live. I think it would be great. And I'm definitely looking forward to new music coming from them. So on that note, now that I step off my soapbox about energy and live music and everything, um I hope you enjoyed the show today. And if you really did like it, tell your friends, subscribe, follow us, because it means a lot. It really does. And, you know, you taking the time out of your busy day to listen to us, even if it's for one episode, we still appreciate it. Because I understand, and and I've talked about this before. I'm no fool to think that you're gonna listen to every episode. And if you do, I thank you. Because I have some people in Germany that do. And I am very happy that you do. But I also know that there's also the casual listener that's gonna tune in for my guest, and that's okay too. But thank you no matter what, and I hope you have a wonderful day, weekend, evening, whenever you listen. I'd like to thank FastSusie for the music. I'd like to thank Christian and David for both coming on the show. It meant a lot, and it was a great conversation. And I'll catch you next time, guys. Bye.